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Do Any Women Work at the Dirty, Difficult and Dangerous Jobs that Men Do? Any Women At All? - Staked in the Heart
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Do Any Women Work at the Dirty, Difficult and Dangerous Jobs that Men Do? Any Women At All?

Coal mining is a dirty, difficult and dangerous job. Miners are six times more likely to die from a work related injury than the national average

There seems to be some confusion as to what a “Dirty, Difficult and Dangerous job” is—obviously from people who don’t work at such jobs.

The DDD jobs require hard physical labor in an unpleasant, dangerous environment, like being suspended 1000s of feet in the air or stuck miles underground in an airless tunnel. The conditions are often torturous, like roasting heat or frigid cold. The job itself, the equipment and/or environment is so hazardous there are routine worker injuries or deaths.

The DDD jobs aren’t in offices, beauty salons, at the mall, restaurants, or other climate controlled environments where the most dangerous piece of equipment is the cash register.

These are roughnecks on an oil driller. I dare anyone to find one photo of a woman doing exactly what these men are doing. I don’t mean her working in an air-conditioned trailer near the drill. I mean working THE drill. (I also don’t mean posing naked at the drill. I’ve seen that photo.)

Women are 52% of the population. If they were holding their own—like feminists claim they can—we would see equal numbers of men and women working at the DDD jobs. We don’t.

Discrimination based on gender is illegal in the U.S. If a woman applies to work as a logger or iron worker, and is even semi-qualified has a pulse, the company must hire her. Women aren’t working at the DDD jobs because they are being “discriminated against.”

Women don’t work at these jobs because they aren’t applying for them.  

I used U.S. Bureau of Labor Stats and Census 2010 stats to see the jobs women are working at, but it’s still hard to know exactly what women are doing.


Rare photo of actual female coal miner

When you take a closer look, you discover women aren’t doing the jobs they are counted as doing. Case in point: often when women work in a coal mine, they aren’t mining at the coal face. They operate the shuttle cars. Even counting these types of “coal miners,” women make up less than 1% of that work force.

99% of coal miners are men.*

When it came to garbage collection, it was hard to find out how many women picked up cans to empty them into the truck. It seems that women were driving the trucks, not physically picking up trash.  Even counting this, women make up less than 1% of total garbage collectors.

99% of garbage collectors are men.*

100% of deep sea fishermen are men.

100% of electrical power line installers are men.

100% of roughnecks (work the oil drill) are men.

Don’t see any women doing this scary, dangerous job

99% of auto repair mechanics are men.*

99% of roofers are men.*

100% of heating, air conditioning and refrigeration mechanics are men.

98% of metal fabricators are men.

97% of aircraft maintenance and service technicians are men.

95.5% of firefighters are men

92% of construction workers are men.

88% of patrol officers are men.


Women are counted as highway maintenance workers, but they aren’t spreading sizzling hot asphalt, and digging ditches. They are holding up “Stop” and “Slow” signs. Females made up 2.5% of road crews.

In 2006, according to U.S. Bureau of Labor Stats, 5,396 men and 444 women were killed on the job.

Women were only 7.5% of on-the-job fatalities.

This proves that men are working at jobs which are far more dangerous than the jobs women work at.

The Most Dangerous Jobs in America:

  1. Fishing

  2. Logging

  3. Pilots / Flight Engineers

  4. Structural Iron and Steel Workers

  5. Farming / Ranching

  6. Garbage Collector

  7. Roofing

  8. Installers and Repairmen Working on Electrical Power Lines

  9. Truck Drivers

  10. Coal Mining

What do most of these jobs have in common? Women make up less than 1% of the workers.

On one of the TV shows about logging they hired a woman. She lasted two days.

And, btw, the 412 rescue workers who were killed in the 9/11 attacks were…all men. That’s because when you’re caught in raging flood waters,  or trapped on the side of a mountain, who is going to risk their life to rescue you? Men.

What is the point of this post? It’s so feminists can see in black and white that men—not women—are doing the unglamorous, hazardous jobs that are required to maintain our comfy way of life. It’s also to show that women do need men. Men aren’t just walking sperm banks we can do without.

If feminists want to talk about inequality, here it is.


*When it came to women being “less than 1%” of the total work force of a particular job, I rounded up in women’s favor. I gave women a full 1% to make it easier to read.

Even this is a model, not a real worker





TAKE THE PHOTO CHALLENGE:   To all of you who disagree, prove me wrong. Take photos of the work crews in these jobs. Show they are 50% women.

Also, don’t bother commenting how you, “know a woman who….changes her own tires or fixes her own toilet” or you know the ONE woman who works as a [fill in blank with DDD job]. This does not change the facts—that you know of the one exception.

UPDATE 11/2016: I get a lot of female commenters who claim women would do just fine if men were to suddenly disappear—because women can do “anything” a man can. Women would simply “take over.”

Today a FL nursing home called 911 because they desperately needed help with a…..squirrel loose in the rec area.  You ladies are so pathetic you can’t even shoo an animal out—and call for a man to take care of it—but you’re perfectly capable of handling an electrical grid if it goes down.

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343 Responses »

  1. While believe it or not beauty salons can be dangerous or at least hazardous to health. Especially nail salons with those fumes. You even mention a cash register being the most dangerous a women deals with. Have you heard of store clerks being shot and killed during armed robberies. No I’m not a feminist or “liberal” just an observation.

  2. What you are saying could be said without deliberately insulting women and saying they’re not pulling their weight. It’s an observation. Not many women do these jobs.
    But these jobs aren’t the only jobs hat are the backbone of society- women are prevalent in healthcare, government, teaching, agriculture, legal, administration. These are all crucial to society and economy as well. Some of these are difficult high pressure jobs (nursing or dr dor example can be physically demanding, dangerous and mentally difficult, I’ve seen 2 tiny midwifes lift full grown people 60/90 kilos and carry them as daily bedsheet routine. Lifting heavy people all morning so you can change their blood soaked sheets isn’t ‘easy’).
    Women also are a minority in IT services – but it’s not DD job. Women don’t avoid the harder jobs as such, its more they are drawn to different types. Many probably haven’t considered coal mining for example because there are so many other avenues available, which is great.
    I am certain that no man working in DD jobs does it because he thinks ‘someone has to pull their weight, ill do it for society’. No. They’re doing it to get paid or because they are interested in it. We should appreciate them yes and I think many people do.

    You could have made your observation in a non offensive way but you chose to deliberately be offensive towards women and make out like they aren’t ‘pulling their weight’. Feminists haven’t asked for 50/50 on every job known to humanity, they’ve asked for equal opportunity to get jobs that used to be completely closed off to them and to receive equal pay for the same work ie female supermarket worker on same wage as male in same role. You’ve deliberately been provocative in order to receive more hits on your website and I dare say you couldn’t give a shit about this topic and are just trying to receive maximum comments on your article to boost your website. Pretty pointless and destructive.

    • Kev108, I never said women weren’t pulling their own weight in society. You came up with on your own. I merely pointed out women don’t work at the dangerous jobs — despite women claiming they can “do anything a man can do”. Doesn’t matter if midwives have to lift a heavy patient. There are no death stats for working as a midwife. It doesn’t quality as a deadly, dangerous job.

    • I think that you’ve missed the point entirely, bub. Remember what Steinem said? “A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle?” Yeah, well, what if all the bikes decided not to show up some day? And with respect to your point about making this point in a “non-offensive way” I think to get the point across you have to practically hit women and manginas like you over the head with it. Women are NEVER worried about offending men. Ironically, they figure “hey, they are men and they can take it.” Are you implying that the feelings of women are so rarefied, so delicate that they can’t stand a little of what they’ve been dishing out to men for the last fifty years? Go read a man-hating feminist article in one of the British and American rags that they call newspapers and get a load of what I’m talking about: the vitriol, condescent, misandry, and outright hatred is palpable. Maybe women should eat a teaspoon of the shovelfuls of shit they have been shoveling since I was in grade school.

    • Women want equal pay for equal work but I still have to do all.of the heavy lifting for them even though their contract requires them to be able to lift 50lbs. Its completely sexist. Most men wouldnt mind helping women lift heavy objects at work, but when women are constantly screaming about equality and still demanding special privilege? Its pathetic. I should get payed more if I am capable of producing more labor.

    • I agree with this some what but feminist do boast about doing everything a man can do and often say they can do it better how ever the jobs that woman often do can be replaced by men and also did you know that men are often labeled as an elementary school teacher or day care worker? And guess what it is, yep that right they are afraid that the men is going to molester the kids and even though there will probably be more woman that want those jobs there countless black Male babysitters who have been accused of potentially kidnapping children with no report just because he was black and they were white. Also being a kindergarten teacher is not nearly as hard as being a college professor which are mainly men. Also this proves that there is some kind of biological social order and if men stopped doing these jobs there would be panic and pressure. How do I know because in ww1 and ww2 men were shamed if they didnt want to go to war often by woman and in South Korea when woman stopped having kids the goverment and society was trying to forcefully make Korean woman mate. So here’s the problem because men do these jobs and mainly only men there is gonna be pressure if they ever decided to stop because they keep sociaty going by the moment and I will say this I’ve never heard a feminist say I want society to collapse so that woman can rebuild it but plenty of mgtow do and if you dont know what that is look it up if you can find that in s Google search you win but that right there tells me that woman dont carry their weight.

  3. The argument made here does not make a very sensible point. At the heart of it, it seems that many men are feeling wronged by the system and discounted, blamed and unappreciated, and that is a shame and something needs changing there. But in terms of society crumbling without men working the DD jobs, the same can be said about women leaving the roles they predominantly do.

    The thing is, people working in the jobs you are talking about are generally getting paid more for the danger. And their wages are directly and indirectly paid by those who do all the other forms of employment. A roofer for example would be paid by the company ‘he’ is employed by, and that company is paid by the owner of the house. Just as often as not that bill will be paid by someone (often a WOMAN) who has earned the money working in the office or other jobs not on your dangerous jobs list. So you can’t just say that without those people society would crumble when everything is interlinked in an economy. If people didn’t work office jobs and other jobs then they couldn’t pay for roofers, equipment, fuel and all the other items the DD people are paid to mine, build etc
    So women are supporting men, and men are supporting women.

    Furthermore women in jobs such as medical, dental, agriculture and logistics provide services for the men in these jobs and society, and also organise the logistics of the work itself.

    And if men left these dangerous jobs in big numbers it is likely the demand and in turn wages would increase to such an extent that women would line up to have them. I think often it’s just not the work that many women have been brought up to be familiar with. Same as in wartime when women too kind over these types of jobs when the men left, and in the industrial revolution when women worked terrible dangerous conditions in mines and factories at half what the men were paid. Since then workers rights have improved a lot.

    And what’s the problem if many women choose not to go for those higher paid but physically harder jobs? They still work mentally difficult jobs that are crucial to society…

    Yes of course there are some hypocritical feminists out there but many logical and reasonable ones as well, like any other field. feminism emerged largely from the initial battle for women to have the vote when women were not able to vote and getting paid pittance in the mines and factories of the industrial revolution which were extremely hazardous. From there feminists have demanded equal pay for equal work, rather than getting paid less for the exact same job on the assumption that a man is also supporting them (which usually does not happen now).
    Feminism requests that both men and women have equal opportunity to choose work in the field that they are best at or that suits them best. Why do you say that this is picking and choosing? Men get to pick and choose as well…? Why is that a bad thing? Whatever job they have contributes to the economy that supports the wages of the DD workers anyway

    Of course women should appreciate what men do, as men should appreciate what women do. Everyone should respect each other.
    Most men are capable, wonderful people. But so are women.

    My sister works as a labourer and companies are often initially putout because she is female, and some turn her down. But anyone she actually works for demands to have her back as she works hard all day without complaint, which is more than they can say for the rest of their staff. Other women I know wouldn’t do it, or at least they’d complain a lot. But that’s how it is, all people are different. Many men never work DD jobs.

    It’s a confusing time where people are angry and unsure with changing gender roles and we should all just try to respect and appreciate one another.

    Just a side note about the birth thing – no one argued that birth is hard and that makes up for it. What they are saying is that it is hazardous work. The birth death rate used to be around 10 per cent!!!! And many women are desperately ill during pregnancy with gastro symptoms the entire time – vomiting at work and all day and also through the night. So it can be very difficult , let’s not say it isn’t.

    • That childbirth is difficult has nothing to do with working at a dangerous, deadly job. Childbirth is NOT A JOB.

  4. Bravo! You are 100% perfectly right.

  5. I find it interesting that in all the comments I’ve read, men and women are both having a blanket statement put over them. I appreciate how both sides are brought into question, and I agree with both sides to an extent. Men often do do more DDD jobs.

    But I wouldn’t say that not all women want comfortable jobs. Most little girls wanted to be princesses, based on how they were raised or their environment from being a child. All I ever wanted to do was grow up and be a recovery agent. Or the more common term, a bounty hunter. I see there are several women who do DDD jobs and have left comments, but they acknowledge the statistics, which I appreciate. And there are men who do cozy jobs, or take care of children. Growing up, my mom worked two jobs while my dad stayed at home. Everyone has their own preferences, so I hate the idea that a topic as controversial as this is being like a black and white statement. We are all in the gray area.

    I have only ever worked physical labor jobs, starting when I was 14. I’ve never wanted a cozy “women’s job” because I know I would get bored and be payed less. I work hard for everything I have, including my education and the paper I’m currently writing on how women can work dangerous jobs too. I’m not saying that many do, but I think it’s good to raise awareness in the fact that it IS an option. I don’t think many women focus on working DDD jobs because they’re taught to focus on eventually settling down, or facing society in terms of beauty. There are just too many variables to consider as to why these statistics are the way they are.

    • Kaylee, We are not all in a grey area when it comes to jobs and the gender of people who do them.

      We have very solid evidence and stats to back up what I said about women not working at the DDD jobs. Women don’t want to do these jobs, they don’t have to and they don’t. They can’t physically handle most of them anyway.

  6. The perpetuation of the Human race and the project of civilisation requires both sexes, each performing their different (essential) social and economic roles. Roles they are bioligically hard-wired to perform. This is the fundamental reality that feminists deny (and the basis of most of the arguments against this post). Civilisation worked (and works) best when men and women recognised and played their respective roles.

  7. i am a woman and a labour but most men dont get back to me about jobs and i have even been told that i should work in a shop as thats more of a woman job its not that woman dont want the jobs its that most job sites will not hire a woman even if they are skilled

  8. I worked the western north dakota oilfield for several years. It was rare to see a women, it was more rare to see one working.

    I currently work for a grain company. One of my coworkers is a woman. And to her credit, she really isn’t bad to work with. She is gorgeous, and its a little distracting. She recieves allot of special treatment, and better working conditions. No one should be surprised. Im not mad, or surprised, but I should be. In an equal workplace with a person who has a tenth of my skill and physical strength, i should be outraged. But, I’m so thoroughly conditioned, i don’t care even tho I’m aware I should.

    Most women will never know what a man’s work day is actually like, and by know i mean witness, let alone experience.

    There is no equal standard of conduct between the sexes when it comes to work.

  9. Great article!! To your point about how women claim they “can do anything a man can” … please have them explain how, concomitant with the rise of women leading our public elementary education system (as teachers, administrators, and other such “educators”), our country’s quality of education, as evidenced by test scores, continues to decline in world rankings. In addition to the fact that WOMEN are failing our children in schools, could this decline also have something to do with the fact that women are also failing our children on the homefront since there are fewer stay-at-home moms helping to nurture their children’s academics outside of school hours? More women at work means less moms at home tending to their children. I’m all for women being able to have any job for which their qualified, but once they decide to bring forth life into this world, their priorities should shift accordingly unto that child. To do otherwise is the epitome of selfishness and irresponsible parenting.

    • I am no expert on the American education system. Before I could give a meaningful rebuttal of your argument, I would need to do weeks of research. I just want to ask you a few questions. Do you believe that the countries which are outperforming the United States academically do not have females as teachers and administrators? Or do you believe that American women are inferior and unqualified for the positions that other nations’ women perform? AND while I acknowledge the biological differences between women and men and I personally think that lactating Mums are the obvious parent to be primarily responsible for YOUNG children, how is it that you blame women for not caring for school age children and seem not to know that they have another parent who should share responsibility?

      • The issue of test scores and actual grade outcomes is not related to women as teachers per se. Men are giving female students better grades than their scores would translate to…This is because “grades” are granted based on things which have nothing to do with the actual class the same as most everything else in life where you are judged based on criteria not specified in the actual job description. Instructors should have 0 discretion on grades outside of test performance. Oh wait…all those poor test takers will piss and moan about how they are better than their scores because anxiety. Look, if you have test anxiety maybe its because you are not as good as you think….because I am a person with an anxiety disorder and still provide high test scores with little preparation yet consistently got grades which were lower than my actual academic aptitude (I was born poor btw)..

        Lets talk about these issues when an “authority” can’t jimmy the game for “favorable” types. Women vs men is an irrelevant issue. Any favoritism not related to specified performance is wrong regardless of sex, race, or any other distinction.

  10. There’s droves of men who live as hermits and don’t even need society at large.
    All those women have to do is show where are the equivalent women, who live without society at large.
    Some of them don’t even have to sun society, some of them live in so remote areas that no one bothers them.

    • They do that in the tar sands of Alberta. Lots of drugs and hookers. Guys hooking up on-line and cheating on the wives back home. They seem to be doing really well. I’m sure not all of them do it, but it isn’t a great place for mental health.

  11. I’m smiling right now. You are right, women do need men! Men also need women! That’s why we were both put here. There are some exceptions to you’re point, but come to think of it, I have never seen a female trash collector lol. I won’t go into a female who does this or that, but I will go into my own personal experience. I have been a forklift driver for over 20 years. I have been at my current job for over 2. For the first 8 months I was there I was shoveling oil dry drenched in oil. I felt as if every day was a test to try to get me to quit. I am not a quitter and decided to stay right where I am only because of the good money and OT availability. None of the men were required to do what I did before or during my employment, just me, but I never cried about it. This place is dirty as hell! Everyday I come home and get in the shower and the dirt just pours off me. I can say being a woman working with all men, I can summon them to move a 55 gallon drum with no problem, especially since I’m only a third of the weight of it. The reason I work this type of job is because it brings in more money than the usual jobs women work in the depressed geographical area I am in. I also don’t enjoy working with the drama queen women. I really enjoyed this article! Great job!

  12. Well I do one of the jobs near the top of your list. And I do know female engineers and there are plenty of female truckers. The main problem I can see is that most of these jobs, who is looking after the kids? Hard for women to progress in these jobs when their husbands are not taking care of the childcare, doing all the household tasks, providing a hot meal and letting the women go for a drink after work. How many of men in the above jobs list do half the household tasks as well? Why is nursing full of women? It is back breaking dirty work with long hours. Don’t see many men doing it. Truck driving would be bliss compared to changing nappies and clearing mess all day. As for saying childbirth isn’t counted because it is not a job and is a choice, well so is choosing what work you do. Women are obviously tough as they give birth and many die doing so, but despite this they don’t expect good payment for it and are usually straight back at work at home even if they nearly died. In my industry women weren’t allowed to do the job for many years; women now don’t see any women doing these jobs and don’t realise it is an option.
    I am sure when men do the majority of the childcare, cooking and household chores, women will be applying for these dirty and dangerous jobs.

    • Female engineers are not working at the oil drill, for instance. They have an interior, climate controlled job, as do female truckers.

      Nursing is full of women because men are not nurturers.

      Giving birth is not a job, it cannot be considered in the list of actual jobs. Child rearing is a job in a sense, but again, not in the same category as the jobs above. But it’s not dangerous, dirty and deadly. It’s an indoor, climate controlled job.

      • Sorry, I have worked with a fair number of male nurses. Times they are a changing. The dad of the kids I nanny for does the lions share of the childcare because his schedule is more flexible than his wife’s. And he is very nurturing, the kids are very attached to him. And their house is not climate controlled. Not everybody has air conditioning. Pregnancy and labour might not be paid, but it is work. Just because it doesn’t fit neatly into you theory, doesn’t mean you can ignore it.

    • Good for you, Sarah! I doubt your comments will be given the weight they deserve, but it is good to see you try to change the stereotypes.

      • What stereotypes? Did you read the stats above? Her comment that if men would do more child care and housework then women would all of a sudden be applying for these jobs, was dismissive nonsense. How the heck can these men in these occupations be doing MORE child care and house cleaning if they are busting their asses, working long hours, and risking their lives to support their families? Catch 22 much?

    • Anytime a man is left alone with the kids, he is one of two things.
      Judged to be a pervert or judged to be incompetent.
      Anytime a man is asked to do something entailing sensitiveness or any touchy feelies, his manhood is called into question. But if we’re not, we have “toxic masculinity”. There’s just no winning.

    • You’re full of it. Women aren’t applying for these jobs because they don’t want them.

      The dismissive attitude of “Well just do more housework and women will start applying to these jobs” is total crap. First off if he’s busting his ass working long hours at a DDD to support his family and she gets on him about the dishes when he drags himself in the door, then she has zero empathy and takes him for granted. Secondly, trying to draw an equivalence between house work and working on a fishing boat, electrical high wire, construction, roofing, or mine work is insane. Thirdly, whenever housework is mentioned, taking care of the yard, taking out the trash, maintaining and fixing the cars, cleaning out the gutters, trimming the trees, doing general repairs, etc is conveniently ignored, and men do far more of this than women; if your response is that there are women that do this too, then my response is yeah and there are men that do indoor housework as well.

      The ingrate attitude that “Well women can do all this” doesn’t change the fact that women aren’t doing it. Your reasoning on why women aren’t in these jobs makes no sense. There are many women attorneys, doctors, and pharmacists, so why doesn’t your reasoning apply to these fields? The only conclusion one can reach is because women don’t want any DDD jobs, nor are they really interested in STEM. C’mon 1% or less of females in most of these fields? Women have no intention of applying for these fields…ever. These jobs keep civilization running and it’s the reason you have the roads, power, automobiles, running water, food, buildings, rescue workers, hospitals, toilets, computers, cel phones, and the list goes on. A day without men would put us in serious trouble; a day without women, no not really. Men build and invent things that you use everyday to make life easier. Without men, you would be living in a hut talking through left over tin cans and a string.

      • You clearly don’t know much history. A brief bit of internet will give you a long list of women who have contributed substantially to our civilization, many of them despite mens’ efforts to stop them. Without women, there wouldn’t be any men.

        • You just dodged all my points with a straw man. WTF? without any men there wouldn’t be any women either. I never said women never made contributions to society.

          My overall point was that civilization cannot run without these DDD jobs, and women are not contributing to them. If there was a day without women we would get along just fine, men could plug in the holes from any void that would be created. Civilization would STOP if there was a day without men.

          Stop being such an ingrate.

          • And men are supposed to be the logical ones. You honestly think, without any drama, that all the roads will fail, the grocery stores will empty, yada, yada, yada in one day without men? What happened when men went off to war? I don’t have time to research and think for you, but I will bet that many of the youngest, strongest men suddenly left their jobs. And women stepped up until the men came home and they were tossed out of their jobs, lost their financial independence without anyone asking what THEY wanted. I am very busy right now, and will answer you in more detail another day. I don’t need to be “grateful”. Men get paid for their work. If you want women to prop up your ego, ask some other woman. Did you even google to see what women have done for you? I can give you a list of more than 10 some other day.

            • What the hell does that have to do with anything? Again you are building a straw man. Women made contributions to society, yeah so? I never said otherwise. As a matter of fact I would go out on a limb and say that probably all of your points on women’s contributions were true. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the article. The author spelled out exactly what the point of the article was. She even answered you and spelled it out for you AGAIN. Feminists and their supporters are constantly bleating about “male privilege” and complaining about men (and men are NOT complaining about female privilege) all the time. Yet there is zero push from these idiots to get women into these DDD jobs. Women are NOT lining up for these jobs at ALL. As the author said women aren’t fighting for the “opportunity” or the “right” to slap down hot tar or work down a manhole. I would absolutely love to see some of these man haters at the end of a shovel or in the sewer; it would give them a taste of the “male privilege” that they are always complaining about. This is a truth brick; how can you not agree with this? Frankly, saying that “Well we would do it too” is universally recoginized in any other arena, industry, or athletic as being a weak pussy excuse, without exception. Why do you think that the rules don’t apply to you? Women are not doing it. A crystal ball prediction that it would be different if men weren’t doing it, is absurd. 1% or less in many of these jobs! If women can do these jobs, then prove it and put their money where their mouth is. Oh and yes, you do owe these men kudos, because they provide you and I with all the comforts of life.

              Are you seriously that inept at seeing your own hypocrisy? Women want to be patted on the back all the time for their contributions so they can be appreciated. Men DO NOT. How many times do I have to point out this fact to you? There was a recent women’s march called a Day without Women, perhaps you recall it. I bet that you supported this march. Do you know how ridiculous it is to shrug your shoulders at DDD jobs and be OK with a Day without Women’s march? You seriously need to take a logics class and learn how to reason.

              Get this through your head, men DO NOT march, bitch, moan, complain, or lobby about their issues; women however, DO just that, alllll the flippin’ time in the media, internet, politics, entertainment industry, 24/7 all day every day. So quite your bullshit , and woman up!

          • PS- My personal experience with men is that they cannot find the milk, their sunglasses, car keys or shoes without a woman. I have a vision of how well the world would work if all the wives just sat back and laughed.

            • PS Ha!!

              Men do this in the military, and they don’t need women for this.

              It’s funny but everything that you mentioned that you help men find was invented, and manufactured by men. That’s a big part of the problem; you are displaying a stunning lack of critical thinking skills.

              I realize that envy and resentment of men is a big part of your makeup. After all men overwhelmingly invent and build things that you use everyday to make your life easier. You are a classic predictable case of envy because you try to tear down and minimize everything that men do in order to make yourself feel better.

        • Oh yeah, great, why dont you show this “long” list of maybe 10 women?

    • That doesn’t make sense. The same could apply to any job. Who is taking care of the kids when a woman is working at the office?

      • A lot of these sorts of jobs have bizarre schedules, like 12 hour shifts- 14 days on, 7 days off, 14 nights on 7 days off…It is pretty hard to arrange daycare for that sort of thing, and society still expects women to take primary responsibility for kids, and dumps a shit load of shame on them if they don’t. My grandmother left my dad with her mum while cooking in the logging camps. Guess who was a pathetic mum for not taking care of her own kid? For not being a good enough woman to get a good husband? Nobody ever seemed to worry too much about his dad who left town.

      • I got lucky. I was able to get a well paying union job with benefits and work weekends. My son was with his dad and my mum. At one point, I worked 3 part-time jobs so that I never had to leave him with a stranger. I have turned down work because the daycare issue wasn’t working. Now I have a M-F job and am available for my son whenever I need to be. Most women, including the ones who work in offices, do not have that peace of mind.

      • True.

        Are you reading our exchange? Everything she is saying doesn’t make any sense. However we (men) have let them get away with this, so a lot of this is our fault. These fembots will say the most hypocritical contradictory shit, and they aren’t held accountable or challenged in any way,

        Take for example her calling men man babies or whiners. This is such a stunning face palming, pot calling the kettle black, hypocritical statement, that only someone that has had their asses kissed all their lives and has no shame, would utter such over the top ridiculous nonsense. First off, the polar opposite is true; men don’t whine or complain about this to any appreciable degree but think they have to “man up”. Secondly, women have an open forum in the media, politics, the entertainment industry, books, talk shows, the radio etc, to endlessly complain about every issue whether real or imagined under the sun. Feminists and their supporters endlessly talk and complain about cat calling, man spreading, the pink tax, toxic masculinity, the male gaze, man splaining…the list is endless. CAT CALLING and MAN SPLAINING! BWA HA HA HA HA HA! and she calls men whiners for pointing out and agreeing with the article! That’s the insanity that we are dealing with.

    • I’m a retired Army male nurse, and now work in the VA. I was the single parent for a long time, and my ex was a lazy woman who didn’t like to cook, and didn’t like to clean. This I can tell you- in the military the women, for the most part, would NOT lift sandbags, would not move cargo, would not put up THEIR downed tent during a sandstorm (6:32 helped, while the rest were still on their cots!). I ready to see women plumbers, women in construction, etc. Equal rights means equal responsibilities, not special rights! When a guy would say, “Equal rights”, the women usually said nothing, but they looked like they’d been mistreated. I’ve worked with some butch women who could hold their own, and I respected them for it. BTW, I used to work construction too.

  13. Women want to say “they can do anything a man can do”. And maybe they can ! But they don’t Have to do the things men do. I am a male dump truck driver and I go in and out of gravel pits. These pits are a dirty dusty environment. Even the loader operators who have a cab, they are all dusty and dirty bouncing around in the cab. However, there are scale house offices where truckers stop to get paper work. Take a guess who has these jobs ? In a nice clean office, warm and cozy. That is right people it is women. The women tell the men what to do. I actually asked a female manager at a gravel pit about the a recent position as scale house operator, She told me ” we are not hiring men” then said ” no more men” and laughed at me. Is the equality women are complaining about ? These places have to hire women but why shouldn’t the women share the dirty work ? Most of the people who work in human resources just about anywhere are female. They make sure the man gets the dirty work.
    The whole mee too , times up movement, I think is the best thing ever. Women are so greedy for power and money they have actually taken the sheep’s clothing off the wolf with this recent movement. Men all over the world see it. It is about time, women come to a work place and the men ignore their appearance and give them their fair share of the dirty jobs. The days of women succeeding in the workplace because of her looks are over. Great job women.

  14. I can’t tell if this is a poorly written opinion piece or an even more poorly written persuasive article. It’s almost like the writer is saying “Apples have sugar, and candy gives you cavities. Therefore, anyone who eats apples has rotten teeth.” What exactly is the point? To convince women that they are not qualified for certain jobs so they should not try? Someone please help me to understand. I will eventually read your reply. I’m pretty busy though. I work 80 hours a week as a tower tech installing and troubleshooting 4G LTE. I should have a few minutes to respond, since I’m a woman, and that means that I must not be “actually” climbing towers. (Yeah, right!) I must be the * next to the 1%. Its funny how the writer even discounts the small percentage of women by saying, “oh please, don’t tell me about the one woman you know that does ___” I think it’s important to point out those small percentages because it’s not nothing. And ONE is more than nothing. Also, there are so many men who are pussies and could NOT do my job. Just as I could NOT be a nurse. Jobs are fucking jobs, and they all deserve respect for the skills.

    • You are wasting your time! This writer does not want to consider intelligent responses. She does not want logic. As you have already noted, she discounts or ignores the fact that women do these jobs; after entitling her piece, “Do Any Women…”. She and many other people, want to move the line to 50%. Women MUST do 50% of these jobs, or none of them count. And lets not include crap like “mother” in with the dangerous jobs, despite the fact that women have died in childbirth throughout history, and still do. She wants to create controversy, and she likes to kiss up to men and get their attention by flattering them. It is the time honoured way of women who can’t “do” for themselves. I stopped responding to most of the notifications because it is a losing battle. So many people with their minds already made up, and I guess it hurts their brains to consider new ideas.

  15. We do exist, I know because I am one. I do not have a photo that shows 50/50 male/female on a crew unfortunately. I myself am the lone female field worker for the contractor I work for as well as on the entire construction site. I agree with a lot of what is stated in above entry. I don’t not include or consider office personnel, truck drivers, or equipment operators in this class of DDD jobs. DDD jobs to me means hands on, up close and personal. Here is quick overview of the work I do and my title. Union, Journeyman Construction Skilled Craft Laborer, local 563, since 1999. Commercial highway, earth retention, foundation excavating and backfill, demolition, environmental/worksite hazardous, nuclear, pipe laying-sewer and water, underground trenchless pipe rehabilitation, soil stabilization, etc. Proud to say I am just one of the guys out there. My first couple years were beyond tough. Went home broken and crying everyday! Showing up for more the very next day. It isn’t just us girls that need to prove ourselves, guys do too. Either you got it or don’t. This type of work isn’t a 9 to 5 punch in, do a half as job, punch out kind a thing. It’s your life. I eat, sleep and breath this work. The money I make, very good money, comes from the blood, sweat and tears of my labor. Harassment? What’s that? You’ll hear me swear and talk dirty like everyone else. Discrimination? Non ever that I have I experienced. I like to think I get jobs because I can do the work and I am good at what I do. Not because I am female filling a state quota. One construction company I was employed with hadn’t had a female in the field for 5 years prior to my applying. Sure, they got fined and payed extra taxes. It just goes to show that the right person, willing and capable of performing the work, gets the job. It would be reckless and unsafe to do otherwise. I hope this message helps your research. Thanks for reading.

    • Good on ya. My sister was a plumber and a mechanic but she will tell you that she was a Unicorn, and you are a Unicorn. Kudos to you.

      The numbers are real in the article, and to point out the tiny tiny percentage is missing the whole point of the article.

    • BTW Andrea I would absolutely love to see more women going in these fields. I am an egalitarian, and the day I see more women picking up my garbage and fixing my sink, then we will be moving closer to true equality. Not the I want to pick and choose equality that feminists want. Same thing with the military, women need to register for the draft.

  16. But being a housewife is the most difficult job there is…

  17. Women are not physically built to do the dirty dangerous work that men do. So how can they claim full equality. Have you ever seen a man with a fancy hairdo and nail varnish working on an oil rig or cleaning a sewer ?

    • Seriously???? This is the extent that you are capable of reasoning? What would a person’s hairdo have to do with work they were doing with the rest of their body? What about women who don’t polish their nails? Compare a woman who is 6 feet tall with a man who is 5 and a half feet tall. No, most women are not as strong as the strongest men, but most men are not, either, and if all those jobs required men to be super buff, there would be a lot job openings.

    • Dirty and dangerous job? Let’s put childbirth on that list. Women still die trying to have babies, and taking care of them can be damned disgusting. As for claiming “full equality” with men, I think what a reasonable woman wants is an equal chance to prove herself. If she can do the job, why shouldn’t she? Why should people sit at their computers judging every woman as if they are all the same? There are plenty of men who can’t hack anything but a desk job.

      • Once again, if you have PROOF that somebody out there is denying ANYONE a job opportunity based on ANY REASON that might be illegal, TAKE YOUR PROOF TO THE AUTHORITIES. There are numerous organizations who are on the look out for such cases and have large budgets set aside to drag companies through the courts for doing that type of shit. Just casting generalized blame and accusations and trying to make men feel like shit by default for being men based on almost nothing instead of encouraging EVERYONE who might actually be going through discrimination to go to the authorities with their PROOF.

      • 3 Crows,

        First of all, having a baby and raising children isn’t a “job.” It’s part of life—and a choice—at least here in western society.

        You are missing the point. Women are screaming all the time about how they are “equal” to men. If we had true equality, women would be doing the dangerous, awful jobs men do in equal numbers, that is 50/50. (The fact that some men work at desk jobs is irrelevant.) Women do not want the “chance” to prove they can log timber, slap down hot asphalt in 100 degree heat, repair cell phone tower lines, work on the steel skyscrapers, clean out septic tanks, etc. They certainly have the equal chance to get hired for these jobs and if they aren’t hired, the federal government will sue the company on their behalf. We’ve been down this conversation before.

        • Having babies and raising them IS a job. An unpaid one, but a job. Jobs are part of life and choices. Women are equal, that doesn’t mean they have to do the DD jobs. And neither do the men. I’m not stopping them from becoming nurses or office workers. It doesn’t matter how many times you say it. It isn’t true, nor logical.

          • OMG this is the disconnect that is out there. YES men DO have to do these jobs otherwise civilization crumbles. Women aren’t doing them. Without men doing these jobs we have no roads, no cars, no buildings, no food, no airplanes, no running water, no toilets, no power, no bridges, I could keep going. The fact that you think that we as people can take or leave these jobs shows your entitlement, your dismissiveness, and your female privilege.

            I want to see women get out there. I worked on a fishing boat and I was a roofer. Quite whining and complaining about men and get out there and HELP US.

            • Your comment is pretty fanciful. It has been a while since I bothered with this thread, but if you care to look through my comments, you will see that I am no little princess. I’m not going to repeat everything. I have taken care of myself, without a guy for much of my life. I get offers, I am just not desperate enough to take the first guy that will pay my rent. I can do my own plumbing, yard care and change the oil on my own car. I have even replaced parts on my car and clothes washer. You haven’t seen it? Holy shit! It might be that you are not omnipotent. I did apply for a city worker job, picking up garbage. I didn’t get it. Shortly afterward, I got a housekeeping job in a senior’s home. Another example of a girly job. Hard work, on your feet all day, and the climate IS controlled. By old ladies, so read 25 degrees, minimum. Despite your drama, civilization is not going to crumble if you decide to get a different sort of job. I’m pretty sure all these heroes are getting paid. It isn’t charity work. And I am willing to bet that not all of them have disdain for women, either. How about if all the dental hygienists quit their jobs. Your teeth will fall out. I could go on, too, but it is an asinine argument. Yes, we will have food if whiny little boys quit their jobs. I have worked in the farming industry, so I know women do that sort of work. Yes, men can take other jobs if they want. If it is so easy for women to muscle in on male dominated industries, then men can do the opposite. Maybe more women would go for these jobs if this sort of thing was not in store for them. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-chicago-police-sex-discrimination-20180319-story.html Don’t make assumptions about me. You don’t know me.

              • OK fair enough. Then why did you make the ignorant assumption that these jobs were
                A) Disposable and it doesn’t matter if men work them or not.
                B) That if men made the choice not to work them, then they would somehow get done?

                They are NOT getting done by women. I repeat that you take these for granted. Virtue signalling that you do some work like changing tires or the oil in your car doesn’t mean anything.

                Men DON’t whine about this ding dong. You seem to have poor reading comprehension. I am calling YOU out for being the whiny one. All the 24/7 male bashing, women as victims bullshit on and on and on and on. Yes I am putting you in this category by your clueless statements. MEN are virtually silent on this and they don’t constantly bitch and moan about women. Men have no marches, no protests, no lobbying…NOTHING. Again one of the main points is that there is constant whining and moaning about men. The fact that entitled little princesses with a victim complex think they can say all this garbage about men but can conveniently take for granted everything that men provide is insane. So your whiny little tledboys scenario is in fantasyland.

                Oh, so we would have food eh? I noticed that you conveniently ignored every other point that I made. No we would not have roads, we would not have buildings, we would not have cars, we would not have indoor plumbing, we would not have airplanes, we would not have running water, I could do this all day. As far as food, the VAST majority of food production is from men (raising and slaughtering livestock and poultry, maintaining the farmlands with heavy manual labor, operating heavy machinery etc.) Women in farming is not going to anywhere near cover the needs of the population. ALL of this does not just fall out of the sky.

                The way things are now, if there was a major reduction in the male population, then the state would have to force the female population into these jobs to try to stave off the breakdown of society because women currently have no desire to do them. Look at the numbers again. They are real. Comparing mountains to mole hills is irrelevant.

                Your excuses on why women don’t enter these positions make no sense. There is no way that numbers would be that low (1% holy crap) even if there was at least a kernel of truth in what you say. I pointed out to you the men that work long hours at a dangerous exhausting job factor. I pointed out to you the men doing most of the yard work, and maintenance factor. If you want to obsessively focus on interior housework and blow it out of proportion, then that’s a world of your own making.

                Women already go into jobs that have long very long hours. Currently more women are graduating from medical school than men, and there is a huge amount of women attorneys and they are on the rise. If your reasoning were true than it would apply to these, because these were once overwhelmingly male dominated jobs. The only logical conclusion is that women do not want DDD occupations, because if your reasoning were true then it would HAVE TO apply to women doctors and women attorneys. There is no escaping this; your scenario, and the existence of women doctors and attorneys cannot simultaneously exist in this reality.

      • I think you missed the point of the article. The fact is women are not doing it. Women aren’t knocking down the doors trying to get these jobs.

        I would absolutely love to see more women going for these jobs. The article was also making the point that many women are taking it for granted that men are keeping civilization running, while at the same time talking shit about men. Men are not getting out there and marching and lobbying about this but keeping their mouths shut about all the man hate.

        I am an egalitarian, my sister was a plumber and mechanic and she put it best: “I’m sick of these whiny bitches that complain about men all the time but refuse to get their nails dirty”.

        • The argument made here does not make a very sensible point. At the heart of it, it seems that many men are feeling wronged by the system and discounted, blamed and unappreciated, and that is a shame and something needs changing there. But in terms of society crumbling without men working the DD jobs, the same can be said about women leaving the roles they predominantly do.

          The thing is, people working in the jobs you are talking about are generally getting paid more for the danger. And their wages are directly and indirectly paid by those who do all the other forms of employment. A roofer for example would be paid by the company ‘he’ is employed by, and that company is paid by the owner of the house. Just as often as not that bill will be paid by someone (often a WOMAN) who has earned the money working in the office or other jobs not on your dangerous jobs list. So you can’t just say that without those people society would crumble when everything is interlinked in an economy. If people didn’t work office jobs and other jobs then they couldn’t pay for roofers, equipment, fuel and all the other items the DD people are paid to mine, build etc
          So women are supporting men, and men are supporting women.

          Furthermore women in jobs such as medical, dental, agriculture and logistics provide services for the men in these jobs and society, and also organise the logistics of the work itself.

          And if men left these dangerous jobs in big numbers it is likely the demand and in turn wages would increase to such an extent that women would line up to have them. I think often it’s just not the work that many women have been brought up to be familiar with. Same as in wartime when women too kind over these types of jobs when the men left, and in the industrial revolution when women worked terrible dangerous conditions in mines and factories at half what the men were paid. Since then workers rights have improved a lot.

          And what’s the problem if many women choose not to go for those higher paid but physically harder jobs? They still work mentally difficult jobs that are crucial to society…

          Yes of course there are some hypocritical feminists out there but many logical and reasonable ones as well, like any other field. feminism emerged largely from the initial battle for women to have the vote when women were not able to vote and getting paid pittance in the mines and factories of the industrial revolution which were extremely hazardous. From there feminists have demanded equal pay for equal work, rather than getting paid less for the exact same job on the assumption that a man is also supporting them (which usually does not happen now).
          Feminism requests that both men and women have equal opportunity to choose work in the field that they are best at or that suits them best. Why do you say that this is picking and choosing? Men get to pick and choose as well…? Why is that a bad thing? Whatever job they have contributes to the economy that supports the wages of the DD workers anyway

          Of course women should appreciate what men do, as men should appreciate what women do. Everyone should respect each other.
          Most men are capable, wonderful people. But so are women.

          My sister works as a labourer and companies are often initially putout because she is female, and some turn her down. But anyone she actually works for demands to have her back as she works hard all day without complaint, which is more than they can say for the rest of their staff. Other women I know wouldn’t do it, or at least they’d complain a lot. But that’s how it is, all people are different. Many men never work DD jobs.

          It’s a confusing time where people are angry and unsure with changing gender roles and we should all just try to respect and appreciate one another.

          Just a side note about the birth thing – no one argued that birth is hard and that makes up for it. What they are saying is that it is hazardous work. The birth death rate used to be around 10 per cent!!!! And many women are desperately ill during pregnancy with gastro symptoms the entire time – vomiting at work and all day and also through the night. So it can be very difficult , let’s not say it isn’t.

      • Child birth lasts 12 hours at most. You don’t give birth 5 days a week 52 weeks a year.

        Second, if women are being discriminated in DDD, why aren’t feminists campaigning for them?

  18. My MALE friend is afraid of dogs, and that includes CHIHUAHUAS. How can you guys perform as well as women in a mine if you are even afraid of CHIHUAHUAS?

    Stupid? Yeah, the same amout of shit as the last part of the article.

    • What does one guy being afraid of Chihuahuas have to do with the fact men do all the dirty, dangerous work?

    • Coral? Do you think one guy is representative of billions? So, if your friend is afraid of chihuahuas then all men are? Are you serious?

    • He might be a male, but he’s not a man

      • So, a person has balls and a penis, but because he is afraid of dogs, you say he isn’t a man. But a person can be brave and strong and smart and do all the things a man can, but because she doesn’t have the penis and balls, nothing she does will be acknowledged by some in our society…women can’t win with some people. Thank god there are men who have the guts to look at other people honestly and respect them for their abilities, regardless of their sex.

        • You in a million years wouldn’t know what a man is. I don’t look at people based on there sex or physical appearance. I judge then based on there actions, and you to me sound like another feminist complaining online. Anyone who is to be scared of small dog doesn’t realize the dog is actually scared of him. Like I said I judge people by their actions, not their sex. I know plenty of people women and men stronger than anyone who complains on a website. As of now I dont recognize women as being strong in the workforce. when 50% of them do the hard, dangerous work men do, maybe I will.

          • Well said. I would love to see a woman come pick up my garbage or work on my car, but except for my sister, I just don’t see those things.

            Feminists need to put their money where their mouth is. Get out there girls and woman up. You CAN do it. Let’s see actions not words.

  19. Well I think a lot of the reason is the out dated gentlemen attitude. Stuff like taking someone out to dinner is nice. But a lot of men from my experience make me feel useless. They treat me like I can’t lift anything and it’s senseless for me to do it. Its not the truth but hince why I have never applied for a job like that. I feel like dealing with majority men who I would assume to be the way I describe would treat me the same way which would do nothing but make me angry to be at work and give me blood pressure problems.

    • It’s not just men with sexist attitudes. I’m an out of shape guy in his mid 30s and almost every time I walk past the gym on my way to the ATM there’s some woman in the company of very young and very fit and very muscular females who needs help carrying something heavy upstairs and they always ask me or some other unfit male office worker to help them instead of asking any of the half dozen younger and fitter females they’re standing around gossiping with. So maybe some men treat women like they’re useless because there are A LOT of women out there who act useless even when they are absolutely not useless and possibly far more capable than the men they ask for help.

      • This is true in pink collar too. When I used to work different restaurants, the girls would always feign weakness to taking out the trash, or moving dish racks, or gallon tubs of oil. Totally by choice, if they would buck up and carry their own weight, maybe they’d have the balls to stand next to a man and do the same job. To make the same PFT requirements as a man.

    • That is true. I am very independent and like to do whatever I can, myself. My husband and I got into a few scraps because he didn’t even ask if I wanted help- he would just take over whatever I was doing. Women do not get rewarded in our society for being strong and capable. In the last few years I have tried on the helpless female persona and am always surprised how easy it is to get men to do things for me. In my view, everyone is free to define themselves, I just wish others would grant me the same prerogative.

    • I’m a female truck driver and now work in the oil field. It’s about earning their respect. If they wanna lift something for you, don’t let them. Just do it and go about you’re business. Same goes for any new guy on the block. People will push and prod to see what you can or can’t take and trust me. I’m 5’3 and 145 lbs and if I can do it, any woman can. Don’t worry about everyone’s judgement. As long as you can do the job that’s all that matters. I laugh at people who talk crap to me cause I love to show them up hahha! But I also spend alot of time in the gym to grow stoner so I can advance in mt career. It’s more a change in mindset and lifestyle. If you really want it go out and get it (: best of luck

    • Yeah cry me a fucking river…the point is proven….you still didnt chose the job…right Hallie? right? See that shit. This is how I see women…..I remember seeing a video where this female marine said she could beat any Male marine on base at boxing..a random male marine was picked…..she got her ass handed to her. When will you women truly learn? When most men will never want to deal with women on any level….keep it up ladies that day is fast approaching.

  20. Why some men says women don’t have ” aptitude for things like fixing a car engine or engineering a bridge so it won’t collapse”. If a women study in engineering, then she will learn how to do it! Why are they saying they can’t?? Also, I tried to apply for a job that was mainly a man’s job and they were laughing at me for applying and told me that this was not a woman’s job. So how do you expect women to have any interest in men’s job?!

    • Hear. hear! Some people firmly believe that because women have equal rights in many countries, we automatically get treated with equal respect and have equal opportunities. Have equal rights under the law is a far cry from being able to exercise those rights. It is fine for women who enjoy traditional roles to say women have achieved equality, but any woman who has strayed into males spheres or does not fancy acting in traditionally feminine way knows that you will hear ridiculous comments and may have to deal in one way or another with crap for being female.

      • ok that is fine, but why we keep hearing men complaining that women can’t do this or that? I think it’s because men don’t want to see women in their men’s club. Most of men’s job are the most important job and the most well paid job, except for doctor and lawyer that lots of women do. Women want’s do to these job because most women are obsessed over money, yes it’s true!

        • Men complain that women can’t do this or that because THEY CAN’T. I guess this is a newsflash to you, but men and women are physically and tempermentally different.

      • What’s wrong with women not doing man’s job? Men don’t want to deal with women jobs anyway. And I rarely see any women who claims that women can do all jobs. Maybe feminist, but they are bunch of sociopath who believe that men never can be a victim and that a man can’t even touch a woman for self defense.

        • There’s nothing “wrong” with women not doing men’s jobs except American women don’t seem to realize these jobs are dangerous and deadly, and have no appreciation for men doing them.

          American women seem to be under the false impression they can do “anything” a man can, when they can’t and don’t. I know, I hear this rhetoric all the time from feminists–how we only need men for sperm.

          Women need men to repair their cars, fix their streets, repair bridges, the cell phone towers, to build and maintain every building, and do just about everything else that requires hard, dangerous, dirty, work to keep our society going.


          2 seconds later:


          Why are women’s brains so deformed? Do you even know what logic means, ho?

    • What job did you apply for that you were laughed at? That’s gender based discrimination and in America that’s illegal. You can have the federal government sue the company on your behalf.

      • If it’s illegal to not hire women, that means that companies are smart enough to understand that women are capable of doing these job. Then, why would they hire someone who’s incapable, it will ruin their company and economy.

        • Of course, women are capable of doing some jobs, like coal mining. They just don’t want to.

          I don’t understand what you mean in your last sentence. Companies HAVE TO HIRE WOMEN AND MINORITIES because of federal laws. It doesn’t matter if they are incompetent. Haven’t you heard of Affirmative Action? Are you not American?

          • I’m from Canada. But if women want’s to become a hairdresser instead of an engineer, that’s her decision, but why it’s bad if a woman want’s to become an engineer? I agree that most women don’t want to do dirty job, but at the same time, most men don’t want to do feminine job as well. We are different, but when it comes to intellectual job, there is still lots of discrimination.

            • The job that I applied to that they laughed at me was to cut some wood with a machine, I was young and I needed a job. But after “laughing ” at me, I told the boss that he was sexist. Then he calmed down and he said seriously, i’m not sexist it’s just that you will have to lift heavy stuff and it’s more of a man job. Then, I understood and left. I’m not debating the fact that women can do everything. But some job like science, you only use your brain, why some men things women suck at math? Everyone is different.

              • Sexist huh? What are your qualifications? How many trees have you cut for wood in the past? What tools did you use to chopay wood in the past? Were they power tools or manual? What is your average rate of output per hour for 8 to 10 hours per day? How long did you stay at your last woodcutting job?

                Is sexist to refuse to hire an unqualified incompetent liability who could risk chopping off their own limbs due to lack of knowledge and experience, thus beine culpable for the damage they volunteered to do themselves?

            • I notice the two women arguing with me about American workers are not Americans. You two clearly don’t know how things work in this country.

              If you want a non-traditional male dominated job here, go apply, you’ll be hired. And if you aren’t, you can have the feds sue the company on the grounds you were discriminated against.

              The point of this article is to show how men do the nasty, dangerous jobs, and women don’t despite the fact they could have these jobs if they wanted them.

          • I am not American. Do you know how to take advantage of this Affirmative Action? Does a woman just walk into an agency and say, “This company didn’t hire me and it must be because I am a woman?”

            • ahaha no because in Canada it’s the opposite, if a man don’t get the job they say they they didn’t hire me because i’m a man, not because of the qualification but of the “quota” that we have to give a chance to women. It’s ridiculous!

              • That is funny, but I have yet to hear of a real case like that. My comment was directed to Carolina Courtland because she seems to be saying that discrimination doesn’t happen because it is illegal. I don’t think prosecuting and proving discrimination is easy enough to make it very useful.

                • And you’re from Canada. How would you know a thing about prosecuting and proving discrimination in America??

                  You don’t even live here and have zero experience with our employment practices.

                  Gender and racial discrimination doesn’t happen often here because it’s too expensive for companies to discriminate against people.

                • You have yet to hear of a real case like that because men are not cowards who go crying to Mommy Government about the big bad female CEO who committed discrimination. Show me those stats first.

            • I figured you weren’t American because you don’t appear to know Jack about employment in America.

              In America we have federal laws that require employers to hire women and minorities, over the white males. And yes, if a woman applies to work in a coal mine and she isn’t hired by say, she can file a complaint with the EEOC (Equal Opportunity Employment Office) and the fed government will sue the company on her behalf. Companies know this, so to avoid being sued, they will hire a woman who ISN’T QUALIFIED. Read that again. This shows how lame your arguments are about women wanting these jobs and not getting them. You want a job? Go apply at a company that traditionally doesn’t hire women, like logging or cell phone tower repair. They will hire you.

              Affirmative Action is another way to force companies to hire women and minorities. It’s federally mandated. Companies have to report to the fed government how many women and minorities they have hired each year and if they haven’t hired a certain quota they can lose federal funding, if they are university, for instance.

              • (sorry if my english is not perfect, i’m french) So in general, you are saying that it’s not fair for man? Because minorities and women have priority? I agree with you because it should be based on qualification first! It’s the same thing in Canada except that you can’t file a complaint because there are no proof that the employer hasn’t hired you because you are a woman, unless you videotape it. What I’m trying to understand is why men says these kind of sentence : women don’t have ” aptitude for things like fixing a car engine or engineering a bridge so it won’t collapse”. If you don’t need strength why can’t a woman do it, if she went to school and she has a passion about it?

                • And now I moved out of Canana, I live in the Carribean, and I make video games. And still some guy says, well you most not be as good as a man! What is that general rule men think they are better at? They can be really sexist.

                  • Yes, men can be sexist. It’s an ego thing with them. They don’t want to think a woman can be better at making video games than they are. It’s stupid for them to think that way.

                • Well, it wouldn’t be fair to white males if they are qualified, but someone who is a minority or a woman who isn’t as qualified is chosen for a job over them.

                  A woman can do many non-traditional jobs, like driving a forklift, but women cannot do all the jobs men can do. They don’t have the physical strength. Men and women are different physically, mentally and emotionally. Women simply don’t have the stamina, strength or the mental fortitude to do some of the jobs men do.

              • From what I have been able to find, you are really glossing over the details when you say, `federal laws that require employers to hire women and minorities, over the white males.` The mandated policies seem to be only for Universities and government agencies, and should the government be able to have some control if they put up some of the money. Many agencies that have Affirmative Action have voluntary policies with goals rather that quotas, and this is not just for women, but includes racial minorities, people with physical challenges and veterans. None of this applies to a company with less than 15 employees. Also California appears to have done away with it.

                I asked you for more information about how this is enforced, but I guess you don`t know. There is a huge difference between having rights and having your rights respected. I have yet to find a case that was related to employment, where the State was the one bringing the case. It would be nice to see an actual case where the government sued a company for not hiring a woman.

                Even if Affirmative Action were able to get these jobs for women, how do you think they would find their work mates. Of course, women can take it or leave it, just like many other things, but it is a fault with the culture, if opportunities are not freely given.

    • Then why the fuck don’t they go to engineering school and learn? There are more women in tertiary education today than men. You know which schoolshould have the highest density of female populations? Small liberal arts college. Why aren’t women in engineering school and trade schools and autorepair trade colleges?

      What did you major in honey? No lies now, I intend to ask lots of follow up questions. Go ahead, i’m waiting. Which engineering major did you study in?

  21. Many women won’t get hired, plain and simple. Just because discrimination is illegal, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. And often, when they do get hired, they’re belittled by their coworkers and hit on by their boss until they quit or get fired because they didn’t want to have sex with him. Men can simply know a person who’s willing to hire them, and they’re hired, plain and simple. Women can’t do that. Women have to worry if the guy who’s trying to hire her just wants to hire her because he wants her in bed, because they often do. Men think this isn’t a problem because they’ve never been there. I’d love to have a better paying, dangerous job. But the thing that’s keeping me from considering it is my experience in society. Men complain that we don’t do what they do, but they make it this way.

    • Bullshit. Women (in America) can be discriminated against for hiring if the business wants a federal lawsuit filed against them—that they’ll lose. The fed government will sue a business on the woman’s behalf. All a woman has to do is apply in one of the fields where women make up less than 1% and she’s hired. If you want to be a logger or garbage collector, go apply.

      I highly doubt most women think the business owner is only hiring them because he wants to have sex, unless they’ve been brain-washed by some feminist nonsense. Men are sex obsessed but they rarely hire a woman with the idea they’ll be able to bang her at some point. That would open them up to a lawsuit for sexual harassment. And if that were the case—that men only hire women for sex—unattractive women would be chronically unemployed.

      • I once worked at a place where every male except the 4 in my department was young, attractive and gay. One older gay man was in charge everything including hiring. It’s quite obvious he only hired the vast majority of those boys because he liked looking at them. But according to deeply investigative network of gossip queens there, not once ever did the boss bring up anything sexual with any employee. And at least 4 times in the time I was there the boss fired people who offered sex to him and sent out a letter about it to the whole company.

        So, will some men (*and women*) hire an attractive person over an unattractive person. Yes. But if they are wise business people they won’t be stupid enough to initiate sexual contact.

        • That’s an interesting story, but we are talking about the absurd claim that women are “afraid” to get hired at the non-traditional jobs because some man at the workplace might want to bang them.

          You’re talking about GAYS hiring other GAYS. Not the same.

      • “Women were only 7.5% of on-the-job fatalities.

        This proves that men are working at jobs which are far more dangerous than the jobs women work at.”

        Nope. It does not prove that. It is one possible explanation. Quite likely the main contributing factor. Maybe women are less prone to taking risks than men. That has been shown in many studies. So if people are doing the same job and men are more likely to ignore safety procedures, dismantle safety equipment, etc, a lot more of them will die.

        Your logic is all over the place. You ask, Do any women do these jobs? You were the one with the 7.5% stat! Obviously, you already knew that women do these jobs. You just want to discount that fact because you have some kind of stake in trying to glorify men at womens’ expense. I like men, I think they are awesome, but I think women can be pretty awesome and competent, too.

        • ” So if people are doing the same job and men are more likely to ignore safety procedures …”

          Don’t forget that there are some jobs where women refuse to do certain aspects of the job even though the men and woman are supposed to have exactly the same job.

          Many male nurses and male office workers can tell you about the countless times something heavy or a large number of things needed to be moved and the women insisted the men must handle it. Or a belligerent patient or customer comes in with intentions of getting physical with someone and the women insist that a man from some other department must drop whatever he’s doing and come handle it because they refuse.

          Then there are female security guards whose job is to patrol the perimeter and interior of large facilities and they refuse to leave the video surveillance room because either they’re afraid of the dark or the place has been robbed numerous times before and it’s only a matter of time before it’s robbed again and they refuse to be the one out on patrol when it happens, even though it’s their JOB. There are security jobs that are supposed to be handled by a single guard but when a female is on duty she does not go on patrol so instead of firing her they force a male guard to work extra time with her so he can go on patrol for the _entire_ shift while she sits for the entire shift.

          • I totally agree that there are women who refuse to do their jobs properly because they don’t want to do strenuous, dirty or dangerous tasks. Do men call women on this crap? Do they tell their bosses to treat all the staff equally or they will have a human rights fiasco on their hands? Do they complain to the union? I don’t know, because I wasn’t there. I worked with one good-looking young woman who would manipulate the guys into fetching things for her and doing her work. Sad, but that would have been the time for these guys to stand up to female entitlement.

            What I do know is that I have seen lots of men don’t work hard enough, too. I have seen men who refuse to clean the bathroom properly. Waiters who stood around like statues while I pulled in good tips that I had to share. I, even though I am female, cleaned up huge amounts of shit and other bodily fluids. Instead of sending a work order to the basement so that 2 men would come upstairs with a dolly and move an armchair, TOMORROW- I picked up the bloody thing and put it in the room down the hallway.

            I have put myself in harms way to stop violent people from hurting others, more than once. I believe that woman can be more effective in calming down an aggressive person in some instances. Women are naturally less threatening and so less likely to escalate the situation. Many people are less likely to attack a smaller person. Women tend to have more experience and skill dealing with other peoples’ emotions, and playing peace maker. And, if you know how to use a Mommy voice, you can reduce people to childhood, and hopefully, compliance.

            Neither sex holds a monopoly on laziness or unreasonableness. But I am troubled by people who don’t want women to have equal rights just because men don’t have them. I stand up for men’s rights, childrens’, animals’, but really- don’t hack on the women’s movement, just stand up for your own.

        • Your explanation for the death rate stats on the job for women versus men is partially correct. Women are less prone to take risks so they don’t work at the dangerous, deadly jobs to begin with—which is the point of this article.

          Show me the evidence that men are “more likely to ignore” safety procedures. For you to say such a thing is patently absurd and not based in reality.

          I’m not “glorifying” men. I reported the facts about life. Women and men are not equal in terms of what they contribute to society. Women DO NOT work at the dangerous jobs that keep our infrastructure going, keep us safe, keep us in hygienic conditions, give us technology, give us those advancements in medicine, etc.

  22. I’m a female faller. One of these “DDD” jobs you’ve listed (logging). I would send pictures and videos but I’m not sure how. From what I see, yes, more than 99% of people in this job are men. I have never actually met or found online a woman that does what I do, but I think a big part of why that is is simply because it’s not thought of as a woman’s job. Women just don’t consider it an option. Not because they can’t do it, but because society makes it seem that they can’t so they don’t even try. That’s the problem. Not to mention how women are often treated by male coworkers when they are the only female. Guys like to feel tough and when they see a woman doing the same job somehow it makes them feel less manly and they don’t like that. So they put down the women to make themselves feel better.

    • I believe that when we talk about equality in the workplace, it’s not just about things being 50/50. Biologically men are more attracted to this type of job so obviously there will be more men, but what equality is is when women do choose to pursue a typically male dominated profession, that they are treated with respect and equality.

    • It’s not just 99% are male. It’s 99.9999%. I would love to have a photo of you or another woman working as a logger. I would definitely post it. I used to have my email up, but I think I removed it accidentally. It’s carolinacourtland@yahoo.com

      Women don’t do jobs like logging because they don’t want to, and why would they? It’s hard, dirty work.

      How would women know how they would be treated by their logger male co-workers if they’ve never worked as a logger? That doesn’t make sense to use as an excuse. Women just don’t like to work outdoors in dangerous, unpleasant conditions.

    • They DON’T try. How many women applied for the same job you did. They are told they cant do it because they have not proven they can. You are the sole exception. Be proud of that, but don’t expect us to wait for the rest of your gender to catch up to your initiative. Hasn’t happened yet.

  23. I understand the point of this article and yeah I agree (but I don’t agree with anyone who thinks we don’t need the opposite sex, male or female, or that they have no value if we could do what they do. If you think that then quite frankly… you are a sociopath and the world is better off without you) but I see one big issue with your article. How easy it will be for people to dismiss it. I mean your words appeal to a certain audience for sure, but you appealed to them before they even knew you existed. Because it is your ideas that they appreciate (because they are compatible with their own), not you. You really mean nothing. No offense of anything. None of us do. It’s called having a preference and preconceived notions.But why would it be easy for people to dismiss your article? Other than their own preconceived notions? Well quite simply the question… How many men are working these jobs? If you are talking about percentages you need to be thorough. It’s like the fact that most murder victims are men not women. Something men’s rights groups often like to point out. Yet most murderers are also men. Details. Without them we might as well just be sitting around scratching our asses. And that’s what both sides of the fence (of feminists and anti-feminists. which I’m perched upon because there’s mud on both sides and quite frankly I don’t like to get dirty) seem to doing at times. Ok maybe more often than that and varying degrees on each side. You can both be assholes.

    Again I get the point of the article and I agree with the idea behind it. It’s a good one. I’m a principles person. But when considering how others think (and like to skew information to suit their own view) when you try to make a point (no matter how correct) but don’t factor in every detail then how easy is it for them to tear apart that point and thus treat it like it’s irrelevant?

    Again not disagreeing. Just pointing something out. If you want to make a point it needs be a solid one.

    • I don’t understand what you mean. I’m simply reporting facts, not trying to appeal to any particular group. This isn’t a “men’s rights” website. If people want to dismiss reality, that’s on them.

      My point is a solid one. It can’t get more solid than to provide stats to back up the premise that men do the dirty, deadly jobs in society and women don’t. Tell me how I can make my point more clear.

  24. There is no pay/wage gap and this article highlights some of the reasons why.

    • Yankee: Pay/wage gap? Do you mean that women aren’t getting paid as much as men? That is probably true because women aren’t doing the dangerous jobs men do. You have to pay men more because they’re doing riskier jobs, and jobs that require a skill.

  25. I fail to see why just because woman choose not to work these jobs that men are more important. One reason woman choose not to do these jobs is because they have children! They are more important in a childs life than a man… Proven fact by the way! And also just because they don’t work them, doesn’t mean that they aren’t more than capable. Most people, MEN and WOMEN choose not to do them because they are so dangerous and why risk their lives of they don’t have to. Your article proves nothing but you’re an asswhole who thinks women can’t live without men. Let me tell you, you are VERY wrong. In fact more men would be lost without a woman, than a woman without a man. Before you start bashing women’s roles in society, let’s look at the statistics on parents. It’s proven fact that the hardest job is being a parent. More women, by FAR take on 100% of the parenting role than men do. So all these high paying dangerous jobs aren’t doing us any good because they aren’t paying any child support. So tell me.. How are you MEN keeping up our lifestyle? Cause I know a lot more women who are independent then men.

    • The “hardest” job is not being a parent. Being a parent is still an indoor, climate controlled “job” and preparing infant formula is hardly dangerous. Being a parent is the most IMPORTANT job—although I’m using the term loosely because it’s not a job like the ones I’m talking about—where you go to work to earn a living in unpleasant conditions. Parenting is less of a job and more something you have to do in life.

      You missed the point. Men are responsible for keeping things in our society running smoothly, they are the builders, creators, maintainers. They do the nasty, hard jobs women don’t do, and no, women can’t live collectively in a society without men. Everything would fall into ruin. Roads wouldn’t be repaired, bridges wouldn’t be fixed, water mains would remain gushing water everywhere, cars would stop running. Whether men pay child support enough or not is irrelevant to this fact.

      When you say “independent’ you mean these women you know repair their own cars, fix their own roofs, change their own tires, fix the plumbing, etc.? I doubt that you know many of these women. They may support themselves, but they are still paying a man to do all things I listed above for them.

    • You my dear are an illogical, unreasonable, fool, with not a shred of logic and accountability. I would rip your entire post apart sentence by sentence….but why bother? You won’t learn a thing.

    • Tiffany is a cunt. Don’t be like Tiffany.

      • Daniel..No I’m not a cunt. I just don’t like pricks like you who think women can’t live without men and that women couldn’t possibly “maintain, build, or keep infrastructure.” what crock of shit! And you’re another idiot that feeds into the ignorance. So you can keep your idiotic comments to yourself because obviously your mother never taught you respect to women.

        • Respect must be earned bitch, demanding respect from men just because you are a woman disregarding any other trait makes you an uppish misandrist self entitled princess because obviously your mother didn’t teach you to respect men but to use them as you see necessary. Feminist cunt, selfish women like you deserve to suffer.

        • Tiffany, I agree you are not a cunt, and should not be called one for your views. However, you are naïve. You aren’t seeing what’s right in front of you.

          Next time you venture out into the world, take note of who is maintaining your city’s infrastructure. Note the ratio of men to women who are fixing the roads, working on power lines, putting out fires, stopping a broken water main, building houses, etc. Get back to me with photos proving the crew on all these projects is at least 50% women.

      • hahahhhhahh/ hilarious! wish i’d thought of that!

    • As a women, I don’t think you should get mad about this article. I do get tired of the “Women treat men like slaves” mentality, but I don’t think that was the point of this at all. Even so, that’s only a very few men that actually believe that and of course barely any women would want to treat men that way because it would be disgusting.
      The choice to take on the job isn’t anyone’s but the worker and they get paid decently and the author recognizes that. I think the point is that radical feminists have greatly understated men’s role in this society and frown upon them and their respectable good paying jobs. That simply will not do. Men need respect. And society NEEDS men… badly. If we didn’t have them, we’d fall apart. They build the world as we know it.

      • I don’t think I’m trying to suggest women treat men like slaves. I’m simply pointing out all the work men do to keep our civilization functioning properly.

        I’m also blasting the notion women “can do” everything a man can, as if we’re interchangeable. We aren’t, and it’s patently absurd to claim we are.

        • Sorry. My bad. I wasn’t trying to put words in your mouth, but thank you for the reply and clearing that up. Lovely article by the way.
          I agree with that too. Women cannot do everything men can do. Men are irreplaceable. I think it is a great shame that western society has degraded gender roles. Women are better suited to certain things and men to others. It is delusional to think that two sexes, which are clearly biologically different are interchangeable. I think it’s a very dangerous line of thought.

        • Oh and I never said that you thought women were treating you as slaves. I was commending you for your level headed view.

      • If all the women disappeared from the face of the earth, men would still volunteer for shit jobs because other men would still want to pay them so they could enjoy the finer things in life.

        But if all men disappeared from the earth the typical western city would have to import cruise ships full of women from 3rd world countries and possibly actually enslave them to force them to do this shit that NEEDS to be done for comfortable western lifestyle to exist.

        • You can’t force slaves to do things they cannot do. Much of the things men do, women simply can’t. They don’t have the aptitude to understand engines or repair things like toasters, for instance. I’d like to see women build a cell phone tower and get it operable or fix a broken steam turbine at a nuclear power plant. I actually laughing right now because the notion that women could do either of these things is laughable.

          Also, women don’t have the physical strength to hoist heavy things around.

          Civilization would collapse without men.

          • How many times have you seen a man make a woman stop what she’s doing at work so he could lift something “for” her? You think she lets him because she can’t. No, she’s letting him lift it to avoid an argument and let him feel good about himself. I worked a job where the men who lifted “heavy” boxes and furniture were paid more than women. They never hired women to lift the “heavy” stuff, even if they wanted to. But in reality, I had to lift the “heavy” merchandise all the time, the furniture and stuff my customers wanted me to lug down from storage to checkout, because the men were always on break. It was not hard, but my managers didn’t want me to do it. I wasn’t trying to prove anything. I was helping customers. But no, only men can do it, so women didn’t get hired, didn’t get paid for the job, and didn’t get the nice weekends off.

          • Wow, you really are a fucking idiot. Genocide and torture dont qualify as force anymore? News to me. When was this legislation passed?

            • Try reading before you respond. I said you can’t force slaves to (physically) do things they can’t do. You can’t make women lift trucks.

        • Ha! No, dear. If men disappeared, women would feel comfortable doing the dangerous jobs that men intimidate us out of. We’d get paid more money than we do now.

          • You are deluding yourself if you seriously think most women are going to lay down hot asphalt, repair roofs, dangle off a thin line from a helicopter to rescue someone in raging water, crawl into the sewers to fix a water line, work an oil drill in the roasting sun, weld steel beams hundreds of feet above the ground, etc.

            I could go on and on about the jobs women don’t and won’t ever do. It’s because they don’t have to. They also lack the physical strength, and frankly, don’t have an aptitude for things like fixing a car engine or engineering a bridge so it won’t collapse.

    • LOL if your job was so much more important than the father’s, then why in the FUCK do so many criminals come out of single mother households? Look at every impoverished dump in this country and you will see single mother households with crime all over the damn place. Keep telling yourself your job is more important. It makes your vagina more golden.

      • I’m going to have to agree with Reality Check about single mothers not handling parenting well. The ones in my neighborhood use the police to discipline their kids.

    • You are not making any sense, looking out for a baby, while sipping your cappucino at the cafe, is supposed to be the hardest work. Just shows your ability i guess. But yes, you are right, men are risktakers and do what has to be done. Did you know women works in coalmines in some parts of africa? They use sex to make the men do the hardest and most dangerous work. The times we live in is thanks to feminists 🙂 btw its spelled “asshole” not asswhole, asshole.

    • Wow, Tiffany, just wow. In today’s modern world, yes you can live without a man. In the world where if you need food you drive over to the grocery store and pick up what you need. If you need to travel you hop into the car and just drive. You are enjoying the world MEN built you. Take away the food, electricity, oil products etc. and lets see how far you get without a man. Want to try? I bet you big money you don’t!
      Wow, mother are more important than fathers, just wow. How many times did you fix up your child bike? Broken chain, flat tire and many more? Can they even bike or you have never bothered?
      Typical feminist, every man”s nightmare!

      • We’d be able to walk alone at night, take off our shirts when we’re hot without getting fined and harassed, we’d be paid to do jobs that men intimidate us out of, women wouldn’t get attacked by emotional, entitled men. We would be treated seriously and we’d be the default, respectable part of society. I’m not saying all men are like this, no. But you think men have made this a paradise for women, and that without men the world would fall to pieces because they all do everything golden or whatever.

    • You said women are more important to raising a child. In fact you said that it is “proven fact.” Can you cite a single study or group of experts who say this? I need citation to believe you. Don’t worry I’ll wait.

    • Lmao how fucking stupid are you bitch? The whole point about feminism is that you can crap out a baby and still do everything a man does, so what exactly are you trying to imply here?

  26. Hahaha, you’ve obviously never worked in any of the fields described. If you did, you’d run into at least one woman like me. I’m a welder/fabricator by trade, but was a heavy equipment operator and made my up to that position by being a laborer. I worked my ass off, and yes, they’re a few of us women out there that can hold their own along with the guys. I can also lift 100lbs+ repeatedly and work fast. It may just be in my genes(I’m 5’9″ and have a good amount of muscle). I’m not a lesbo or do not want to be a man. In fact, I’m thinking of becoming a master gardener eventually.

    • I’d run into “at least ONE woman”, okay. That’s not half the work force. You are the exception, rather than the rule.

  27. You are focusing of course on jobs that require physical strength. Not every man is capable of or willing to do that kind of work, and yet you do not disrespect the male office worker, do you? I suspect that were men not available for that kind of work, women would be allowed to fill the jobs just as they did during WWII when they “manned” the factories. When the men returned the women were expected to give their jobs up and return to their home work, and believe me, many did not want to do that. Jobs led to independence and self respect and a feeling that they were worth something. No, men hold those jobs because they want or need them, not because no one else can do them.

    • You are missing the point. That some men work in an office is irrelevant.

      The post is about showing how women—despite their claim they can do anything a man can—don’t. As for WWII, a factory is climate controlled, not that unsafe, and not the equivalent of pouring hot asphalt on a road in the 110 degree roasting heat, or dangling hundreds of feet in the air in high winds repairing a cell phone tower. These are two things women simply don’t do.

      The point of this post is to clearly illustrate how MEN build, maintain and keep our infrastructure and way of life going, not women—and they do this because they have to. Women sure aren’t going to do all that dangerous work.

    • No I think you would find that if women applied to do those jobs, they would be hired. As I write this I sitting in a bus on the way back to camp from a construction site… On this site I know of around 8 or 9 women who are on the tools (out of 750 craft employees), paid exactly the same wage as the bloke next to them… Now I know for a fact (even if feminists don’t believe in facts) that there has never been a qualified woman knocked back for a job. To the extent that qualified men have had their applications knocked back in favour of women

      TLDR; if you want the high paying dirty jobs, apply for them.
      If you want the high paying cushy jobs, get qualified and apply for them

  28. Might this be one reason?
    Agency ‘a man’s world’: Women sewer workers sue DEP over unfair treatment
    “No bathrooms, no changing rooms, no access to agency washers placed in the men’s locker rooms, so no chance to wash off the sewage on her uniform at the end of the day.”

    I am assuming there may also be a limitation of separate facilities in most confined spaces. I’ve known a number of females that would be up to the task. Is it worth the cost to build these facilities to attract more? No, but this would certainly scare away the few who may want to try.

  29. Try being a Thoroughbred Exercise Rider for Tim Martin at Prairie Meadows Racetrack. If you can do this you can do anything.

  30. Iam a commercial diver all winter long in ALaska and during the summer iam a fisher women so I wouldn’t say 100% of deep sea fishermen are men

  31. Yes, women have worked in coal mines as far back as the 1800s. I know this because I work in coal mine education. And yes, they were progressively pushed out of coal mining by societies views of what was appropriate for women to do and laws. It was women like this who was discouraged from being a coal miner by women and men: http://cwcs.ysu.edu/about/current-projects/journalism/articles/female-coalminer

    Are you complaining that women don’t do these jobs? Do you want women to do these jobs? I can’t really tell.

    Really be honest how many girls and women do we encourage to do these jobs. I can’t think of any girls who ever dreamed of be a coal miner, truck drivers or the like when they were growing up because we simply don’t expect girls to do so. Do I know women who do these jobs now? Yes. If you had a daughter or niece what would be your reaction if she wanted to do these kinds of jobs? Yet, it’s like the same belief that women weren’t good at or interested in science and now that we, collectively as a culture, have started to promote science careers for females the numbers have increased. My best friend is a 25 year old chemist for paint manufacturing company where she works mostly with middle aged men.

    I’m sure you won’t listen to me or my reasoning. I’m sure you’ll call me a femi-nazi or something later. Oh well.

    • As you work in coal mining education, you will also no doubt be aware of what jobs the women were doing in the 1800’s.
      They were almost exclusively working in a chamber above the area where the men and boys were working, their job was to keep a close eye on a candle flame. Should the flame go out, it was a sign that there was a buildup of noxious fumes displacing the oxygen. In that event, they were to operate a bellows to get fresh air down to the workers before they suffocated.
      In rare instances, girls were employed dragging the sled below, most often a job done by boys. They would wear a harness that attached to a sled used to drag material out of the working area, children were used exclusively for this task as a small body was required to get through the often narrow tunnels.

      Now… to answer the question of why this changed. Prior to the industrial revolution, everybody worked. Men, women and children; it was a simple matter of survival. Most products used by a family were produced by the family, everything from soap to preserved food to candles and clothing.
      Work was done almost exclusively on or about the property, and although both men and women worked very hard, there was still a gendered division of duties.
      Women most often worked in or in very close proximity to the home; feeding livestock, preparing meals and preserved food for storage into the winter, and making products such as soap and clothing. Men would tend to work further afield, tilling the land, fishing and yes, even mining.
      Pre-industrial life was truly a multi skilled endevour.
      Although it is not fair to say men worked harder than women, the jobs they took on were in no uncertain terms more hazzardous.
      Of course, this only accounts for the (vast) majority of people. There was a small merchant class that was more affluent, however even there husband and wife would tend to work shoulder to shoulder. Again, this wasn’t due to some notion of gender equality, it was a matter of necessity.
      And finally, the group that we are all most familliar with, the wealthy aristocracy. Here, they had the luxury of emulating court life. Women were not required to work, although most did in fact choose to take direct control of the houshold expenses and the domestic staff.

      Once industrialization changed the world, people were more likely to work away from the home, and after a while, industrialization brought with it affulence for even the masses.
      As is common, once the masses began to have more wealth, they wanted to emulate the wealthier classes.
      The popular (and recently reprinted) book ‘Mrs Beeton’s Book of Household Managemen’t showed the newly wealthy populace how a woman could behave like in order to be a propper houshold matreon. It outlines exactly how to instruct servants and take care of household expenses.
      This life appealed to women of the day, and men, with their good paying jobs, were happy to try to provide some of this lifestyle for them.

      Our society has only been in it’s current state for about 150 years, the re-organizing of what womens role in society has been addressed about 50 years ago, and although there is still some more shifting to come, women have a much less constraining range of choices available to them.
      What has been lagging is men’s role in society. We are still constrained by the same gender roles we were 150 years ago. If we hope to achieve a truly egalitarian society, we need to have liberation for *both* sexes.

      • Thank you for the informative and detailed answer.

      • On a (fascinating) canal tour of the Lowell mills on the Merrimack, the National Parks gal was going on and on about how farm girls were snared into mill work by conniving mill owners, and how difficult their Victorianesque boarding house life was — as if males didn’t work in the mills. It wasn’t only men who devised this hardworking society. Actually, it was (as Prof. Ann Douglas once put it) “women and their army, the clergy). We forget the role of the clergy in engineering religious societies such as our own, from Christening to hanging to burial. Talk about easy jobs, policing propriety devised by Godey’s Ladies’ Book! And where were the mill-owner’s wives? They, of course, were in Paris shopping at Worth’s or in Boston shopping at Filene’s. Men (all but one smokers, by the way) founded our country and risked their lives to guard it. As Farrell notes, “men are the disposable sex”. That does NOT mean that they did it all for women, to adorn them with satins, silks, and parures of pearls. To be honest, the disposibility of the female sex has only been known since WWII — but I did notice! No longer are birthing, childcare, and shopping necessary for survival. More and more men live comfortable lives without women all together. It’s time to bring back boys boarding schools and men’s clubs for those who don’t need women, who don’t need marriage, and rely on immigration to maintain our population. It should be thought of not as going backward but of adopting history to expand our options.

        • Go into the kitchen with a clipboard, and mark down all the things in the kitchen invented by women to get out of it. The only thing I found was the needlepoint on the wall reading Alice Forbes 1811 ABC 123. Even “the kichen” was invented by Benjamin Thompson, Count Rumford, of Woburn, Massachusetts, for military purposes. You know, the kitchen with the stove, the sink, the ice box, the counters, the cupboards, the garbage slot. Men are innovative; women are reproducers. Feminism is dealing with ideology, not reality.

      • http://www.csmonitor.com/1988/0711/acoal.html This is an older article, but seems to shed a different light on the situation.

    • I like how you say its because society well its not our fault if young girls don’t want those dangerous jobs but they sure do want those top jobs they will complain all day long they don’t got one of the top paying jobs in america lets have equality there lets make it manditory to have 50/50 job ratio there whats that coal mining no thats not equality.

    • “Really be honest how many girls and women do we encourage to do these jobs.” None. Now I will ask you this; Really be honest, how many boys and men do we encourage to do these jobs. The answer is you. No humane being encourages neither boy nor girl to that type of jobs, why do men do it then? Because they HAVE to, they dont have a choice mind you. However you encouraging women to get into higher jobs, and completely fine with men having all the horrific jobs, actually will get women into the high spots. What will that do? Push MORE men to the low spots. Equality at its finest. The key is to encourage more women to CATER to men. Cause that is what a housewife does, she makes the food, does the cleaning, and other chores. The problem is you arent ENCOURAGING HOUSE HUSBANDS.

      You really think men WANT to be the one doing the hard work, and then he just gives his hard earned money to his wife? If cleaning the dishes, and making dinner obligates MEN to the WOMANS money then that will work fine. The problem is the women in high places and a husband, almost none of them give half of their money to the man, instead he STILL has his own job. How about encourage men to leech off of female riches, and then Im completely fine with women making the majority of good jobs, as long as they take the shit ones too. Oh wait you dont like that? Good because now you have perspective of how men feel.

      And im sorry, but making the assumption that no one will listen, Is a common excuse fallacy, in which you imply that we dont understand what youre saying, therefor you feel entitled to be right even if we DID address your points. The reason you even said that last thing, is because people HAVE told you that you have no reason, but instead of taking their advice and growing sense, you deny it, and use it as an unjustified excuse for saying stupid shit. I dont need to call you a feminazi cause you are one, and you know its true to. If you truly didnt think you were a feminazi, you wouldnt have to reassure yourself before it even happens.

    • I have a answer regarding your claim that men are pushing women out of those jobs. It is a weak hypothetical argument. Women aren’t simply applying for those jobs and they have plenty of reasons to do so. The idea that exists a big conspiracy trying to push women out of dangerous jobs seems not only hypothetical: it also seems frankly non-sense.

      Now, I do not doubt that there is discrimination against the 1 per cent of women that are there: but that’s not a systemic issue. It is like the 1 per cent of men being discriminated against in fashion jobs or other jobs that aren’t “masculine” according to society.

      Finally the social conditioning of women and men is a real issue. But women arent the only victims. There is also plenty of social conditioning working to push men into those jobs. Why feminists do not address that aspect of “social conditioning”? i.e, the aspects that puts obligations and gender roles on men.

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  33. You should get out and meet some actual working women rather than use other peoples statistics to come up with your present theory. I’m currently working with a female lift mechanic…now that’s a dangerous and dirty job and she is a one tough bad ass working woman. Come up to the high Sierras sometime and meet some women that you won’t find in desk job generated ”statistics”

    • how many women work in your field vs how many men?

    • When half your coworkers are women, rather than just that “one tough bad ass working woman”, then you might have a point, but for now, pointing out the exception doesn’t invalidate the rule.

      Carolina stated that she used stats from The US Bureau of Labour and the 2010 Census, which includes a list of ALL workers deliniated by sex, and when a certain demographic makes up less than one percent of a particular workforce, they are statistically insignificant and therefore not indicative of trends as a whole.

      We’ve already seen postings from the few women who do work these kinds of jobs, but they are vastly in the minority, by at least two orders of magnitude. Celebrating the very very few women who both choose to work in a dangerous dirty job and are capable of doing so doesn’t refute the fact that the vast majority of women do not.

      The whole point of this argument is that the feminist rhetoric that a woman can do anything a man can do, can do it better, and can do it in heels, is demonstrably false, and a single example in a sea of counter examples does not a rule prove.

    • So you found the one woman who works at a dangerous job. Congratulations.

      That doesn’t change the reality that women DO NOT make up 99% of the work force in what are considered to be the most dangerous jobs. (Considered dangerous based on fatalities/injuries per X amount of hours on the job.)

  34. Look for videos of people doing crazy / risky things and having accidents. 99.9% of them are men. You cant blame this gender disparity on anything but choice.

  35. Dave, to get this right. Do you think the general disparity is due to the barriers (oppression?) rather than natural (biological) disposition, interest, capacity?

  36. Barely any woman doing ANY kind of anything that requires superior skills / talent / extreme dedication. From sports to sciences to arts to even playing with a freesbee. If you find anyone doing something that makes you go wow, chances are that someone is a man.

    • It’s true. I’m sorry I have to say it, since I’m a woman, but I live in reality.

    • No. Men and women are both capable of things requiring superior skills, talent, and extreme dedication.

      Diana Nyad completes historic Cuba-to-Florida swim

      Cheerleader sinks incredible half-court trick shot in mid-flip

      Youngest Formation Wing Walkers? 9-Year-Olds Set Unofficial World Record

      Ryan Lochte may be speedy… but this 16-year-old Chinese girl is even quicker!
      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2180836/London-Olympics-2012-Chinese-swimmer-Ye-Shiwen-breaks-world-record-leads-questions.html#ixzz2npwbDjiC Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2180836/London-Olympics-2012-Chinese-swimmer-Ye-Shiwen-breaks-world-record-leads-questions.html

      10-year-old girl sets new Guinness World Record for consecutive pirouettes.

      Girls beat boys again in GCSE battle.

      Girls beat boys in ICSE, ISC exams

      ETX girl breaks world record for back flips at football game

      5-year-old Arkansas girl breaks world record for largest deer killed

      Woman breaks an all-time fastest Pacific Crest Trail record

      ‘Reluctant’ girls beat boys in science and engineering

      • Im not talking about capacity, Im talking about actual statistics

      • first off, we’re not discussing who’s better than the other. note that the article is focused at women NOT being in dangerous jobs as much as men, not men being BETTER than women.
        secondly, some comments on your your supporting details. by posting the consecutive pirouette world record, you’ve just beaten yourself in your own argument. consecutive pirouette is DANCING. it’s a type of ENTERTAINMENT, not really an essential part of life that requires getting your hands dirty on. mining, garbage collecting, power line installing, etc, are the foundation stone of modern civilization, and is something we CAN’T live without. so by using that, you are actually supporting the author, saying that men do all the hard and NECESSARY work, while women can excel at things, but not important things. same goes for the deer-killing record and the backflip record.
        also, about your INTELLECTUAL points, the part about the ‘reluctant’ girls beating boys at science and engineering, i may quote directly from it,”In engineering, 37 per cent of girls were awarded a distinction, compared with 20 per cent of boys. Girls make up only five per cent of all students studying engineering at Level 2.” five percent, you see. that’s not enough evidence to stand for the majority. the girls who entered engineering have underwent more selection than men. so of course they’re more likely to do better. it’s like comparing the Einsteins and Newtons among men against the mediocre women. GCSE and ISCE skills, are you kidding me? the funny thing with education is, they like to put up these tests and try MEASURING your learning skills, IQ, and whatsoever. those things don’t prove much about your life success. i’ve seen WAY TOO MANY people, including me, that used to do terribly in elementary school and junior high, yet excel when they reach college. (i used to be ranked out of the top twenty in my class, but now in college, i rank number 2). i’ve also seen a lot of my classmates that always get straight As at elementary school and junior hight fail utterly at higher education. so please, stop using those test results to support you statement. use life achievements.
        despite all of that, i think we all shouldn’t be here arguing anyway. it doesn’t matter whose doing those dangerous jobs, because chances are, WE’RE NOT THE ONES DOING IT. so what we SHOULD be doing now, is FEEL GRATITUDE TOWARDS THEM. no matter what gender they are. this reminds me of those articles on stressed-out housewives i’ve read before. and just like today, the comment section was filled with men and women battling each other with words. don’t you see how ridiculous it is? those men and women shouldn’t be complaining. they should be THANKING whoever it is doing their house chores for them.
        and those successful people we like to use in are arguments? again, YOU AND I are both NOT Marie Curie, Rosalind Franklin, Bill Gates, Thomas Edison etc. so we shouldn’t be using them to fight our battles. we should RESPECT them, despite what gender they are. because the truth is, our world today relies on the dedications of BOTH MEN AND WOMEN. they are both just as important and as good as each other.

        • Hangtie,

          I don’t think you saw to which comment I was replying with my post that included the pirouette record, etc. The comment to which I was replying was Yohami’s which read “Barely any woman doing ANY kind of anything that requires superior skills / talent / extreme dedication.” My examples were in response to this, not the original article, so I think they were all appropriate examples of things which require superior skills, talent, and extreme dedication.


        • OMG! She picked up my dirty socks! Hell, my dog’s been doing that for years! For a century after men invented the washer and the dryer, women have had to wait for the wash, then have to lift up the heavy wet clean clothes, and move it to the dryer. OMG! OMG! And then we hit the “make work”. Why is it women can’t believe the clothes are clean and dry until they’re folded! That’s not work, honey; that’s That’s compulsiveness; it’s a mental illness. Oh, and clean out the fuzz in the dryer. It’s a fire hazard. No back talk, now! Just get back to work!

        • I have to admit that I agreed with much of your rambling. I have to point out though that the topic of the article was not ,”… focused at women NOT being in dangerous jobs as much as men, not men being BETTER than women.” The title clearly stated,”Do Any Women Work at the Dirty, Difficult and Dangerous Jobs that Men Do? Any Women At All?”. The commentary following was mainly condescending to women;belittling them, ignoring the women who do those jobs. Every time an instance was pointed out, some misogynist would say it wasn’t enough women. Most of this conversation has been about insisting on some pretty broad generalizations and assumptions that can’t be proven. And before someone points out that many of these comments were made by women, I want to point out that even women can be misogynists.

      • way to miss the point.


        your head.

        of course you will find stuff that women do better than men… but that isnt the point of the article.

      • cherry picking some very limited examples ??

    • This is precisely why I’ll write my novel using a gender-neutral or male pen name.

    • What the fuck is a freesbee? It’s a frisbee.

      • Hey, Jess! I love your comments! I read them all, and I appreciate that you tried. I made a few comments here, and then gave up. People want to believe what they already believe and it is just frustrating that most won’t read a new idea with an open mind. I have done lots of dangerous, and dirty jobs, but I am a woman, so I must be making that up. My most recent dangerous and dirty job was housekeeping at a seniors’ home. Dirty every freaking day. It was only dangerous occasionally, but tricky for the reason that I did not want to hurt any of the senile people that were trying to hurt me. And none of them did. I have that truly feminine trick of manipulation. I used the same intuition that I needed to stop men from raping and killing me. I can talk down most crazy, paranoid people; and when that fails, I can jump pretty quickly and knock down projectiles. I wish people could accept that generalizations are not accurate descriptors of individuals.I wish people could accept that we all don’t have to be the same to be good. I spent 5 years trying to convince a man that he should be happy to be wanted instead of needed. He is off now, trying to find some empty headed, useless girly-girl. You might change a few minds, but the majority just want to keep believing what they were taught when they were little.

        • “My most recent dangerous and dirty job was housekeeping at a seniors’ home.”

          This job of yours is NOT a dirty, deadly job like the ones I’ve mentioned. It’s still indoors and you aren’t swinging hundreds of feet in the air with no safety net. There are no death stats for housekeeping work.

          You want a truly dirty, dangerous job? Go work on a oil drill with its nasty chain that whips around and can snap your neck.

  37. Dude, you are awesome! I was looking up this very topic and am amazed by the photos. Hilarious and poignant.

  38. Perhaps there are more complex reasons than “women just don’t want to get dirty” for the lack of female coal miners. There are lots of social implications for taking a job like that. The idea that a woman would want to do a traditionally male job in conservative places where coal mines are located is a tough pill for most to swallow. In those areas, how many husbands do you think are willing to take care of the kids while their wives go to work?



    And, since you make a joke about women not wanting to work underground, but only on the pit top, here’s some early evidence of women campaigning to keep their jobs underground. http://www.mylearning.org/queen-coal-why-should-we-remember-victorian-mining-women/p-2688/ The reason they were stopped from doing this was because society found it un-feminine. Who voted to have them taken out of the mines? Well, at that time, only men had the right to vote, so there’s your answer.

    You also made a comment somewhere in the thread about there being no real female scientists (“Marie Curie worked with her dad”). Here are just a few that refute that notion.



    Also, the idea that just because we don’t know about them they didn’t exist is extremely foolish. Have you ever heard the term “history is written by the victors”? There are plenty of people in history who have likely made great achievements, only to have the credit taken by someone else in a higher position of power.

    • Stephanie,

      The reality is that women don’t repair the Alaskan railway; they aren’t loggers; they don’t do cell phone tower work, they don’t do ocean rescues from helicopters during hurricanes, etc.

      You can make all the excuses you want, but it doesn’t change the facts. Women simply don’t do the hard jobs because they don’t have to.

      If it were left up to women, our civilization would crumble in a matter of less than a year.

      When I made that reference to Marie Curie, we were talking about history. There are lots of female scientists currently. However, typically science research is not a deadly, dangerous, dirty job. It’s not like working on a frickin’ oil driller in 110 degree heat. It’s an indoor, climate controlled job. It’s not dangling from a steel beam thousands of feet off the ground where if you have one misstep you’re dead.

      • “You can make all the excuses you want, but it doesn’t change the facts. Women simply don’t do the hard jobs because they don’t have to.” It’s not making excuses, it’s interpreting data. That’s why when real journalists and scientists write about studies, they don’t simply find some numbers and post them. They consider the social climate, the historical context, and many other factors. Right now, in most elementary and high schools, boys are scoring lower than girls in most subjects. I could just post those numbers without any historical or social context and make the argument that girls are just better than boys in every subject. Again, you are making an assumption that women “don’t do the hard jobs because they don’t have to.” I don’t agree with that. Women are just now being allowed to enter combat positions in war because they had to fight to be able to. There are still barriers in the way of women in a lot of professions, even if you refuse to acknowledge them.

        “If it were left up to women, our civilization would crumble in a matter of less than a year.” No, it wouldn’t. That’s just absurd. During WW2, when men were shipped off to war and women weren’t allowed to go, all of those dirty, difficult jobs fell to women. Somehow, our civilization didn’t crumble.

        Here’s an article about the 9,000 British women who ran the forestry/logging industry during WW2. They showed themselves plenty capable of doing this job. Why didn’t they keep those jobs after the war? Well, they weren’t allowed to. Those jobs were reserved for the men once they got back. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-24843320

        “When I made that reference to Marie Curie, we were talking about history. There are lots of female scientists currently.” I don’t think you looked at those links, or you would have seen that there have been plenty of female scientists throughout history, many far pre-dating Marie Curie.

        “However, typically science research is not a deadly, dangerous, dirty job. It’s not like working on a frickin’ oil driller in 110 degree heat.” Nowhere did I say it was, I was simply correcting your comments to JJ about women not having an aptitude for math and science.

        • “There are still barriers in the way of women in a lot of professions, even if you refuse to acknowledge them.”

          No, there aren’t. Woman can have any job they want, and if they aren’t hired, the federal government will sue the potential employer on their behalf. Criteria for hiring women was lowered for jobs like fighter pilot, fire fighter, police officer, etc. just so women could qualify when they really didn’t.

          All the men did not go off to WWII. Why on earth would you think something that absurd?? Take all men out of my town, for instance, let’s see how well the women do without them to repair broken water mains, asphalt the roads and roofs, repair the electrical grid, work on the cell phone towers, repair the cars, build the buildings, maintain the infrastructure, clean out the septic tanks, etc. I could go on for pages about what women can’t/won’t do. I don’t even know a single woman who changes her own oil or her flat tires, let alone can diagnose and repair a car. Please. I’m actually laughing.

          All you have to do is open your eyes and look around at all the men working at the difficult, dangerous jobs with no women at the job site.

          You’re talking about two different subjects here, one is the education of women and the other is women working at dangerous, deadly jobs. The issue is: do women work at the dangerous, deadly jobs that men do and the answer is no. They don’t.

          What job is it you do? Send me a photo of you working at what I term a dangerous, deadly job like logging, coal mining, deep sea fishing, steel worker, deep sea diver, sanitation worker, oil rig driller, power linesman and I will post it on my blog.

          • “All the men did not go off to WWII”
            Not 100 percent, of course. THAT would be absurd. But a great majority of jobs in manufacturing were left to women. In fact, so many men left the workplace to go to war, that the government needed to implement propaganda campaigns to get women to fill manufacturing jobs. This isn’t news; this is basic US history. We’re talking women making bombs, planes, etc. for the war effort. Not to mention the presence of female soldiers, primarily in the Air Force. Stephanie points to the true fact that when men returned from the war, women were fired en masse to give manufacturing jobs to men. In many ways, this is why the second wave of feminism started (the first wave was concerned about giving women the right to vote); a challenging of societal norms that positioned men in industry jobs and women at home. Don’t you think it’s curious how so many women were enraged that their jobs were given to men just like that? And this doesn’t make you question how social structures work to put women in some jobs and men in others?

            “The issue is: do women work at the dangerous, deadly jobs that men do and the answer is no. They don’t.”
            Stephanie is not contending that fact. She agrees. I agree. Anyone who disagrees with the fact is blind. But, as Stephanie argues: “That’s why when real journalists and scientists write about studies, they don’t simply find some numbers and post them. <<>>” One thing is to give you a set of statistics, another thing is to interpret them. The answer “because they don’t want to /can’t do these jobs” is an unpersuasive and lazy response to the question “why don’t women do dangerous work.” If you have a daughter, would you teach her to fix the plumbing? No (perhaps you don’t know yourself). But then, would you have her father teach her how to fix plumbing? Would you even try suggesting to your daughter’s father to teach her about plumbing?

            “Woman can have any job they want…”
            Let’s pretend you supervise a mining site. A woman comes to apply to work as a miner. Do you hire her?

            “Criteria for hiring women was lowered for jobs like fighter pilot, fire fighter, police officer, etc. just so women could qualify when they really didn’t,”
            I would challenge that, primarily because extensive studies pondering the entrance of women into these jobs indicate that the previous manner of hiring individuals for fire fighters, cop, etc. was through connections, old boy networks (friend of a family, friend of a friend, etc.). Once these jobs were required to comply with hiring women, job postings began to come up, allowing men who would otherwise not apply to these jobs a higher degree of access.

            “However, typically science research is not a deadly, dangerous, dirty job. It’s not like working on a frickin’ oil driller in 110 degree heat. It’s an indoor, climate controlled job. It’s not dangling from a steel beam thousands of feet off the ground where if you have one misstep you’re dead.”
            True, not dangerous at all to be a scientist. It’s not a comfortable job. High degrees of technicality and knowledge are required. At the same time, some science jobs are not really safe, especially when you’re dealing with wildlife, dangerous chemicals, natural disasters, etc. Not all scientists wear white lab coats. Not all men do dangerous work either; me for instance. A lot of men actually have jobs where they enjoy A/C, where they supervise other individuals, simply because these male supervisors are perceived as better capable of controlling their employees, get away with mistakes and get no crap for slacking off.

            • Wow, thank you, Dave. Finally, someone with some basic reasoning skills.

            • Dave,

              The women worked during WWII because they CHOSE to pitch in to help. Once the war was over, they went back to being “stay at home moms.”

              Being a scientist can be dangerous, but it’s not considered by me to be a typical dangerous job in general. It’s still in a climate controlled environment and huge trees are not swinging within inches of your head every few minutes.

              Stephanie is arguing that men aren’t the only ones who do the dangerous, deadly jobs. She’s arguing that women would work at the dangerous jobs if only society let them. I’m saying women don’t want to and don’t work at these jobs.

              If a woman applied at a coal mine she would have to be hired. If she wasn’t, she could have the federal government sue on her behalf and get hired. Don’t you know that? You can’t not hire someone in America because she’s a woman.

              Criteria for accepting women in many jobs was lowered, like for being a fighter pilot in the military. Women get extra flying time to qualify if they need to, more than a man would be given. I know this because my husband has been an F-16 instructor pilot for years. He says straight up that women can’t fly fighters worth a shit. Everyone in the military knows this, but due to political correctness women are allowed to fly.

              Note that the first “official” female fighter pilot Kara Hultgreen died when she crashed her F-14 while landing.

              Standards were lowered for jobs like airline pilot and firefighter to let women in. This isn’t news. Here’s a lawsuit from an LA firefighter Captain who won when he was fired for refusing to lower standards for female applicants.


              Just because men like yourself don’t work at dangerous jobs, doesn’t change the reality that women don’t work at them. That’s irrelevant.

              • – You say this now: “The women worked during WWII because they CHOSE to pitch in to help.” But you said this sometime ago: “The reason women don’t work in coal mines isn’t because they think it’s a “male job”. It’s because they don’t want to.”

                So do they choose to do it or not? You’re giving conflicting answers. “Pitch in to help” reduces the amazing work women did in the war to pretty much nothing. And no, once men came back from the war, women didn’t simply say “yay, the men are back, we can go back to our homes where there’s a climate controlled environment.” Women were laid off overwhelmingly. They were pissed.

                – “Being a scientist can be dangerous, but it’s not considered by me to be a typical dangerous job in general. It’s still in a climate controlled environment and huge trees are not swinging within inches of your head every few minutes.”

                Of course, nothing women do will be considered a dangerous job by you, specifically. At this point, women can be dangling from a 100 story high beam and you won’t consider that dangerous anymore cause women do it. But I digress… Like I said, not all science jobs are done in white coats. What I meant to imply by that is that not all science jobs are in a laboratory, where there’s A/C. Many scientists overwhelmingly expose themselves to the outside world, to wildlife, to natural disasters, like hurricanes, etc. But I’m repeating myself here.

                – “If a woman applied at a coal mine she would have to be hired. If she wasn’t, she could have the federal government sue on her behalf and get hired. Don’t you know that? You can’t not hire someone in America because she’s a woman.”

                I think I was asking you if you, personally, were to hire. Forget what you think the federal government will do on behalf of a woman who is not hired for a job. Would you hire, yes or no?

                – “Criteria for accepting women in many jobs was lowered, like for being a fighter pilot in the military. Women get extra flying time to qualify if they need to, more than a man would be given. I know this because my husband has been an F-16 instructor pilot for years. He says straight up that women can’t fly fighters worth a shit. Everyone in the military knows this, but due to political correctness women are allowed to fly.

                Note that the first “official” female fighter pilot Kara Hultgreen died when she crashed her F-14 while landing.”

                Could it be that women get extra flying time because it’s acknowledged that women may not handle extraneous G-Forces? It’s not that they can’t do it, it’s just that they need to physically adapt, like anyone would, and it might take them more time to do so. Of course, your husband can have his own ideas as to why women may face difficulties. Indeed, women face a lot of difficulties in the military, mainly because the way they were raised doesn’t match with how the military (run by men) operates. This is because parents don’t teach girls about discipline, notions of authority, heck… we don’t even teach girls to act tough, brave, etc. Why? Because that’s not lady-like. We baby them and treat them like princesses… then they come to the military, and they have difficulty adjusting to the rank-and-file style of the armed forces. Not to mention the discrimination and harassment they face by other troops.

                I don’t know why you include the anecdote of Hultgreen–my guess is that you’re using her as an example as to why women don’t make good pilots. I’m sure if we look at all the aviation mistakes men have done, we’d be hardpressed to argue that these mistakes were because they were men and men suck at aviation. No, that would be stupid. A mistake is a mistake. But a woman crashes an F-14, oh… now it’s proof that women suck at aviation? Double standards.

                “Just because men like yourself don’t work at dangerous jobs, doesn’t change the reality that women don’t work at them.”
                I will say this for the second time… I am not contending that women don’t do dangerous jobs. Stephanie is not contending that either. What we are contending is your reasoning as to why they don’t do these jobs. Your reasoning is that women don’t want to or can’t do these jobs, yet Stephanie has provided you with numerous examples of women that DO want to do these jobs and CAN do these jobs. Yes, the number is not that high as men, we know that. It’s just that barriers are put in place that preclude women from even considering these jobs in the first place. I asked you above, would you teach your daughter how to do plumbing? Heck, would you let her become a fighter pilot? Would you raise her with the hopes of her doing something like this when she grows up? Yes or no?

                • It’s really funny how Stephanie and Dave supports their arguments only in sociological views( mainly based in their PERSONAL examples LOL) but ignores the biological and empirical proofs of science (typical from gender ideology followers). You two have to know that women don’t apply for these jobs only because we tell girls and boys how to act due to their genders. Here goes a documentary with powerful arguments that gender roles aren’t only based on sociological beliefs, but are mainly driven from biology:

              • “Stephanie is arguing that men aren’t the only ones who do the dangerous, deadly jobs. She’s arguing that women would work at the dangerous jobs if only society let them. I’m saying women don’t want to and don’t work at these jobs.” I am arguing that there is a reason why so few do these jobs other than “they don’t want to and can’t.” That women have done and can do them is not up for debate. It’s a fact. I have provided plenty of proof to support this. You, on the other hand, have provided nothing but your own conjecture. You are making an assumption that this is why women are not more heavily represented, but have nothing to support these assumptions. Another commenter on here mentioned that in Australia, at least 1/3 of the mining crew has to be women, and said that the ones he’s worked with carried their weight. Your response was “Australia has some tough chicks. American women would NEVER do that.” Well, quite simply, they would and they have. Do you think Australian women are a different species or something?

                You are failing to address any social or economic reasons why there might not be more women in American mines. In fact, you are not even considering any reasons other than your made-up “women don’t want to do these jobs.” Here is a link to the introduction to “Daughters of the Mountain”: http://www.psupress.org/books/SampleChapters/0-271-02903-Xsc.html I’ve taken a few choice excerpts and put them below:

                -“some of the miners were hostile, remarking, ‘You’re a woman and you’re taking a man’s job.'”
                -“Her experiences had taught her that some men, the “smart alecks,” resented women who could outdo them. This “same bunch” had always told her that there were certain jobs a woman could do, but that running machinery was not for her or any other woman.”
                -“In preindustrial times, American women toiled alongside their fathers, brothers, and husbands to extract coal for household consumption.”
                -“830 women were hired to work underground in 1978, compared to 19,036 men (Moore 1996b). By the early 1980s, 3,871 women were working underground, about one-third of them in West Virginia mines (Hall 1990).”

                “Note that the first “official” female fighter pilot Kara Hultgreen died when she crashed her F-14 while landing.” Why don’t we also note that numerous male pilots have also crashed their planes.




                “my husband has been an F-16 instructor pilot for years. He says straight up that women can’t fly fighters worth a shit.” Well, if your husband says so, I guess that’s irrefutable proof. My friend’s dad used to be an F-16 pilot, and he didn’t agree with this. A female friend of mine has been a pilot of airliners, private jets, small planes, and numerous other types of aircraft all without incident. She’s also a flight instructor who has been giving my niece flying lessons since she was 5 years old.

                • You are misunderstanding the issue. The issue is that women do not work at the dangerous jobs men work at. You talk in absolutes. You think because you can find one or two instances of where a woman worked as a logger or in a coal mine, that means “women work” at dangerous jobs. When, no, they really don’t.

                  Statistically, women make up less than ONE PERCENTAGE of the work force in what are considered to be the deadliest jobs in America. That isn’t conjecture, it’s fact.

                  So women can fly planes? So? Once again, doesn’t change that fact that most pilots are MEN. Like most plumbers are MEN, most car mechanics are MEN, most roofers are MEN. Electricians? MEN. Highway roadworkers? MEN. Sanitation workers? MEN. Septic repair and A/C repair? MEN. Construction workers? MEN. Coal miners? MEN. Nuclear power plant workers? MEN.

                  Even in Japan, women weren’t going into that Fukishima Plant when it went radioactive, same with Chernobyl. No women risked their lives to clean up that radioactive mess. MEN volunteered to fly over it to drop cement on it, knowing they were going to die.

                  What pisses me off about women like you is this delusion you all have that men and women contribute equally when they don’t. It would be nice if men were shown just an inkling of appreciation for everything they do to give us this cushy life.

                  Women like you take it for granted, and act as if women can do whatever men can—-except they don’t.

                  • Best electrician I ever worked with was a woman. Better than almost every man. But was the only female working in the industry in an area with lots of construction and remodeling going on and more than enough jobs to go around. She’d reach out to high school girls and offer paid internships but after about 10+ years she gave up. She says some of her best clients are girls who interned with her a decade ago and they frequently call her to fix or install shit she taught them how to fix when they worked for her!

                    She does what she does because nobody else wants to do it. Every man knows what she knows is getting by being self-employed. Every man who doesn’t know what she knows is too incomopetent to trust to do the job so she has to do it herself, no matter how hot or cold or smelly the job is. And every woman she’s known who knows what she knows (because she taught them half of what they know) is not interested in doing what she does.

                  • Maybe you don’t contribute enough, Carolina, but speak for yourself. Enjoy your cushy life and let other people evaluate their own lives that they know better than you.

                    I appreciate men. I think many women do. Your poor use of the English language is confusing for anyone trying to follow what they thought was a coherent conversation. When you use absolute terms, expect that some people will accept that meaning. If you want to let people know that more men do dangerous jobs than women, say that. Don’t ask, “Do any women” and then get snotty when people give you examples.If you want women to do 50% of the dangerous jobs, say that! If all you want for men is an “inkling of appreciation” for men, stop going on. I’m sure they have got an inkling.

                  • Ops! More stuff you haven’t researched well enough, Caroline.

                    “The day before the Chernobyl nuclear disaster, plant operators were preparing for a one-time shutdown to perform routine maintenance on reactor number 4. In violation of safety regulations, operators disabled plant equipment including the automatic shutdown mechanisms, according to the U.N. Scientific Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation (UNSCEAR).

                    At 1:23 a.m. on April 26, when extremely hot nuclear fuel rods were lowered into cooling water, an immense amount of steam was created, which — because of the RBMK reactors’ design flaws — created more reactivity in the nuclear core of reactor number 4.” Quote is taken from this article. http://www.livescience.com/39961-chernobyl.html

                    I haven’t yet found a source that will tell me who these irresponsible workers or the incompetent designers were, but given your assertions, they must have been men. So if we are going to get out our pom-poms and get all giddy about men doing these jobs, should we also hold them responsible for their cockups?

                    This article just talks about the women who didn’t risk their lives at Chernobyl.

              • That is pretty cute. Your husband says it so it must be true. Women can’t fly fighters worth shit. I would be a shame, wouldn’t it, if he just feels threatened by a female pilot who is better than him. But I guess he would just tell you that, if that were the case.

              • It is illegal in Canada and the States to refuse to hire a worker because of their sex. So if someone refuses to hire you and you are a woman, just go to the government and they will sue the company on your behalf. Right. The government can not even protect a woman who is being threatened by a lover.

                When you want to prove a case of discrimination, you have to have this thing called “proof”. You could use an internal memo directing managers not to hire women. You could bring witnesses who would swear to being instructed not to hire women. A tape recording of the manager saying he won’t hire you because you are a woman would be really good, but most employers are not that stupid.

                Are you the person who keeps insisting that she is a realist? You have made a few good points, but not all your arguments are sound.

              • So the women working in factories during WWII just chose to help. Then after the war, they went home to be stay at home moms. Because that was what they wanted. Didn’t Dave point out that many of them wanted to keep their jobs after the war? Were you not listening to his manly arguments?!

                So women chose to help, but men, men do these dirty, dangerous jobs because women won’t, and so we must bow down and lick their… Women don’t deserve credit, but men do. Odd how these women can’t get any recognition.

          • “All the men did not go off to WWII. Why on earth would you think something that absurd??” Really? You’re going to pretend I meant every last man in the country, including the sick and aged? No, but enough that women were called in to work most major industries during the years that men were away. I already linked you to the article about British women running the forestry department during WW2, here’s one about American women in industry during the same period.


            “What job is it you do?” I’ve worked in many different jobs, primarily in the film industry. I don’t need to send you a picture of me logging, deep sea fishing, or coal mining, you can find pictures of other women doing that online:






            Plus, I’ve never lived near a coal mine, a forest, or an ocean, so those jobs weren’t really on my radar. I have done plenty of heavy lifting and building on sets, but I don’t recall if anyone was snapping pictures of it. I’ve seen enough female grips and gaffers pull their weight to dispel any silly myths that women can’t do those jobs.

            “You’re talking about two different subjects here, one is the education of women and the other is women working at dangerous, deadly jobs.” Yes, I was. I was responding to two different subjects that you brought up in two different posts/comments. Is it not allowed to address two different subjects in one post? I separated them quite clearly into different paragraphs.

            “Take all men out of my town, for instance, let’s see how well the women do without them to repair broken water mains, asphalt the roads and roofs, repair the electrical grid, work on the cell phone towers, repair the cars, build the buildings, maintain the infrastructure, clean out the septic tanks, etc. I could go on for pages about what women can’t/won’t do. I don’t even know a single woman who changes her own oil or her flat tires, let alone can diagnose and repair a car. Please. I’m actually laughing.” So what if you don’t know any. I do. A guy friend of mine always used to talk about how his response to any slight plumbing problem in his house was to call the landlord, but his girlfriend would usually fix it first. Another female friend of mine is basically a handy man because her dad is a handy man and taught her what he was doing when he was doing it. I know how to change my oil, my mom taught me. You’re making huge assumptions about what “women won’t do” even though history proves differently. When women were called upon to build bombs, run the forestry departments, and work all sorts of dirty jobs, they did it.

            • You can argue all you want and bring up photos of a couple women who work at these jobs, but men overwhelmingly do the dirty, deadly jobs. The stats don’t lie.

              Working as a grip on a movie set does not count as a deadly job. I would say that being a stunt woman is more dangerous. And what is the gender of most stunt men? Male, of course.

              When women were called upon to work during WWII, they did. Even QEII repaired military trucks. That doesn’t change the fact that when she had a choice, the Queen quit fixing trucks. When women have the choice, they choose to work in climate controlled, relatively comfortable jobs and are not out in the roasting heat at a oil drill or repairing the railroad tracks in minus 40 degrees in Alaska.

              There were 140,000,000 people in the U.S during WWII. Allowing for half of those to be female and you’re left with roughly 70 million males. Of those, 16 million served in the war, but not at one time. That left over 50 million males in the U.S. at any time to keep up the infrastructure.

              When I’m talking about the infrastructure of a city, I’m not talking about something as simple as an oil change or fixing a leaky faucet. Women simply cannot maintain our way of life, our infrastructure. Women can’t re-asphalt the roads, repair downed power lines, fix broken water mains, restore cell phone service, pump out septic tanks, fight fires, women don’t build bridges, houses or skyscrapers, etc.

              So some guy friend of yours called a chick to fix a leaking sink? So? The majority of plumbers are still male. I also know how to change oil, but guess who does it at my house? Right, my husband.

              I find it difficult to discuss two separate topics at the same time.

          • I had to learn how to change a tire and oil before my parents let me get a drivers license, and golly, how to put gas in the car too! It’s come in handy several times and saved money not having to call a tow truck. Also, didn’t learn to drive a car first, it was a tractor, then my dad’s drilling rigs. I also know several female friends that also have the knowledge of tire changing, We’ve discussed this lack of ability in other women. We don’t laugh. We feel a little bit sorry for them.

      • I disagree. Lots of women in the 3rd world are willing to do whatever needs to be done. It would be easy to convince the tougher western women that they should use their toughness to go to the poorer parts of the world and bring back women more accustomed to working with their hands and getting dirty, by force if necessary.

  39. heh, back in the days I used to do farrier work for horses then went to work at a shipyard out in the shop doing first class layout- summer was brutal and winter was harsh. God I miss the smell of burning metal an the workout I had while there 🙂 & My grandma was a welder during world war 2 this family has some tough chicks.

    • Yes, your family does have unusually tough chicks. I’ve always wondered if any chicks did farrier work.

      My grandmother used to own a farm and did her own work. She would walk around in combat boots and a house dress, you know the shapeless kind with snaps down the front. LOL

  40. I am proud to say I am one of the very few women who works hard and gets dirty doing demolition and excavating everyday. I love it! No office for this chick


  42. I say if you’re for everyone being treated fairly, with no discrimination based on anything, then call yourself an egalitarian, not a feminist, because like how a person discriminating against another one based on sex, is a sexist, much like a racist is to “race,” then yeah, don’t call yourself that. Then again silly me, only women can be discriminated against.

    Also, regardless that men working full time are being payed 40% more than women that work part time, wait there’s no way to make that sentence logical, because it’s plain idiocy, also it comes from Harriet Harman (so you don’t get the wrong person), well no duh, if I work half as much as you, should I expect to be payed the same?

    Pax romana!

    • If you didn’t get it, feminist = domination by females
      racist = domination by your race of all other races
      sexist = domination by your sex of the other sex. (by the way, shouldn’t it be genderist if you gender discriminate? please use the word sex when talking about men and women or male and female you know those are dimorphic SEX-ual traits, never heard talk of gender-al traits)

      • Feminism is not about females dominating society. That would be called a matriarchy. Feminists started a movement, I think they get to decide what the name means. If there are women who call themselves feminists, and they disagree, I can’t see what it has to do with you. Perhaps you have even heard of mansplaining.

  43. “What is the point of this post? It’s so feminists can see in black and white that men—not women—are doing the unglamorous, hazardous jobs that are required to maintain our comfy way of life.”

    This comment is simply one of the so many comments that misrepresent feminists and what they stand for (this is coming from a guy). Feminists don’t necessarily disagree with the numbers that show that men flock to particular jobs while women flock to others. Feminists, I believe, have been one of the few groups to acknowledge those numbers and to explain why those numbers are the case. For feminists, there are at least two problems with the gendered division of labor.

    1) As you point out, labor is divided into two spheres. That means that we can usually think about certain jobs as “male jobs” or “female jobs.” So whenever we are looking for a particular type of job, we consciously filter out the jobs that do not correspond to our gender. For women, that means (as you’ve pointed out) that they filter out the dangerous work that usually pays more.

    2) Whenever the labor market is divided in two, you have the very dangerous situation where you begin ranking these types of jobs. Your comment I quoted above shows this. In your mind, and in the minds of many I’m sure, “unglamorous, hazardous jobs” done by men “maintain our comfy way of life.” That shows that people highly praise the work done by men and compensate ($) men accordingly. At the same time, people devalue the work that women do and ignores how female work also “maintains our comfy way of life.” Sure, women aren’t in construction or in coal mining. But they are in the nursing fields. Nursing requires education, training, patience, and the ability to give out care to many people. Yet, this type of work is hardly praised as the type of work done by men. Sure, firefighters and police rescued people during the 9/11 attacks in NY. But female nurses were also there, mending injuries, giving care, administering medicine… But who gets the movie spotlight? Who are deemed the national heroes? Firefighters or nurses?

    When I think of comfy way of life, I can easily imagine the prototypical image of a woman keeping her house clean and making dinner just in time for her husband’s return from work. What does that say about women maintaining our comfy way of life? Sure says a lot.

    But these type of things would go un-analyzed without a feminist perspective. I’d recommend for you to take feminist perspectives seriously… I think you’ll agree that one of the biggest failings of this decade has been our inability to take the other side seriously.

    • 1) The reason women don’t work in coal mines isn’t because they think it’s a “male job”. It’s because they don’t want to.

      2) Nurses are extremely valuable, and I agree, are undervalued. However, they do not run into burning buildings to save people’s lives. Not one nurse ran a 9/11 tower to assist people, so why should they be called heroes? Heroes by definition are people who acted heroically, jumped into the danger without concern for their personal well-being. They are not people who sat in relative safety on the sidelines, like the nurses.

      (Some nursing does require risk to one’s health/life through exposure to infectious agents. But, not all nursing is risky, for instance, school nursing.)

      When I said “maintain our comfy way of life” I was referring to the electricity, water and sewer, etc., needed to be able to make dinner. Without all that first, the woman wouldn’t be able to do anything at home. Without men working their asses off, there wouldn’t be homes for women to be in in the first place to keep clean.

      • 1) You speak as if everyone comes into the bargaining table with an equal amount of chips. Notions of what it is to be male and female (and how each gender should act) are learned at an early age. From the tool set we give to boys to the tea set we give to girls… we learn what each gender should do–that in itself is partially the reason why we have a gendered division of labor.

        Having said that, we can’t look at this thinking that both women and men have equal options to decide what they want to do. The reason why women “dont want to” do a particular job comes from the way women are socialized to be and the expectations from family and society in general. That’s why women don’t “choose” the coal mines. Because they associate that as a job that is appropriate for men.

        2) I can give plenty of examples of friends whose lives have been saved by doctors– doctors who really don’t jump into a building engulfed in fire. Yet, these doctors are considered heroes. Role models, likewise, don’t sacrifice their own lives for anyone and still are considered heroes by some (MLK, for instance–heck, even my mom). Frankly, your definition of “hero” is so narrow that it leaves out those who don’t do dangerous work. Since your entire post is based on the fact that only men do dangerous work, it looks like you are suggesting that only men can be heroic (while only a few women can). That’s a very sexist way of looking at things.

        Your last paragraph again puts both types of work in a ranking system that values male work over female work. And that’s the problem that you and everyone else that tries to take a stab against feminism make. Feminists never say that women can do everything men can do (some do, others don’t). What they are saying is that different types of work are valued more than others (and this is the job that males do).

        AngryDuck… you make another flawed assumption of feminists. Expendability is something that, perhaps, corporate tycoons have over their workers. Women workers have a long history of being seen as expendable, particularly after WWII where women were prompted to return to their households once veterans returned to their home countries. Women pretty much kept the economy going at that time. But even before this, women in the textile industry faced harsh treatment in their jobs, facing the same expendability that men feel (and have felt) working tough jobs. And it has been many feminists who have actively fought against those who treat workers as an expendable workforce.

        There is much more to feminism than you guys think– as I’m sure that there is more to conservatism than what is actually shown in the mainstream…

        • 1) I don’t know how old you are, but since I’ve been alive, there was never any indoctrination of females as to what job was/ was not appropriate. You’re living in the 50s.

          2) As to heroes, we were speaking specifically about 9/11, not any other situation. You said the nurses should be called heroes, but they didn’t go into the towers. My definition of hero is someone who is willing to risk their life for someone else, and that would be firefighters who are MEN.

          3) I’m not “ranking” male work over female work. It is what it is. Men build the houses and the vacuum cleaners. Women live in the houses and run the vacuum. Men are the ones engineering and maintaining our world.

          Feminists DO say that women can do anything men can do. Feminist go so far as to say that women don’t need men any more. Hello. Where have you been?

        • Male and female are sexes not genders.

          • Male and female are genders as well. There’s only two genders, male and female. I didn’t even need four years of college to figure that out.

            • you would probably need an extra 4 months in college to know that ‘sex’ is different from ‘gender’.
              Sex is biological, having a penis or a vagina make it “sex”.
              Gender is socio-cultural, this drives the concept of “men can fight wars and women can take care of children” sort of an idea.. which we know is of course not entirely true.

              • JJ, so gender has nothing to do with your body, hormones, brain functions etc. In your mind, a female and a male would have the same exact set of behaviors, tendencies, etc, if it wasnt for culture.

                • Precisely…and yes intellectually men and women are capable of the same things..
                  Not only culture, religion plays an equally important role in defining “gender roles” for men and women.
                  And it’s not just “in my mind”.. if you take a few classes on social anthropology, you’ll be familiar with plenty of examples, evidence and reasons to why I think what I think.
                  Also, National Geographic special on societies called “Taboo” throws some light on it.

                  • JJ,

                    “Intellectually men and women are capable of the same things. ”

                    That’s not true, only in rare cases do we see women who think like men. Hence, the few number of female mechanical engineers and nuclear physicists.

                    And when children are allowed to choose what toys to play with, often the girls will pick dolls and the boys will pick trucks or guns. This is not gender bias or culture. It’s just the way we are.

                    Men and women’s brains are “wired” differently. This has been proven by science.

                    • Nothing is wired differently.. people think differently, that’s all.
                      The thinking style people adopt has a lot to do with the family, social and cultural circumstances they were raised in.
                      The fact that you do see female mechanical engineers and nuclear physicists today is proof enough that no such distinction exists.

                      Several years ago female students in engineering and physics was pretty much non-existent. Today we see more women entering such fields.
                      In India, 50% of the country’s engineering degrees are awarded to females. In US, not really. In the 1980’s, when my dad obtained his engineering degree, there were only 5 female graduates from the mechanical engineering department in his college.(My background is Indian, btw..)

                      I personally love nuclear and particle physics; but the reason is solely because I love reconstructing events and perceiving situations; the things I was taught while growing up. My interest only developed when my parents encouraged me to learn all aspects of life from using a hammer, fixing electrical circuits, washing the dishes, cooking, etc.. They didn’t restrict me to gender specific roles.

                      Girls pick dolls and boys pick toys with wheels in general, because as a kid you identify with your closest adult. I was a doll person when I was a kid; had at least 5 of them where ever I went. Why? Because my mom didn’t know how to fix shit! She cooked, cleaned and shopped. (At least that was all I saw her do. There is however more to her personality.)
                      Then I watched my dad fix stuff in and around the house and I thought it was cool. Since I showed interest, he taught me how.
                      How was he interested in fixing stuff? Well, my granddad did that in their family. And he spent most of his time with him.

                      I don’t know if you’ve ever noticed; but the more you admire someone, the more you want to be like them. Simple psychology! That’s all there is. The more attached you are to your mother, the more you identify with her and then soon enough follow suit. Likewise, the more attached you are to your father, the more like him you would want to be.

                      But say, someone interfered in between and told me that girls should follow their mothers’ lead and learn how to cook and clean; and that the fixing were all “boys stuff”, how would it have been? Surely it would’ve been different. At that tender age, you are naaive, and tend to believe everything everyone says. Once that is etched into your psyche you’ll put away all the “boys stuff” and try to become “girl-like”. To be honest, I’ve seen that happen.

                      Hence, gender is definitely created, not at all biological. I have personal experience to prove it. Whether you believe in it or not is not my concern, for I can only tell you; you have to do the convincing yourself.

                      And majority of the population is restricted to doing gender specific jobs. Now I’m not saying that it’s bad. But, merely that we make our choices in life, we are not born with them.

                    • One of the reasons we see greater percentage of women entering the hard sciences isn’t because women have suddenly changed, or because gender roles have been systematically destroyed. The proportion of women has gone up because there’s active discrimination against male applicants when it comes to university admissions. If you stop allowing men to apply for specific courses, the ratio of men to women will decrease even without having a single extra woman applying to, or graduating from, that course.

                      Besides, it seems like sexism to be judging applicants based on their sex. Does it really matter how many graduates are women or men? People are all different, and what appeals to us as individuals isn’t solely, or even significantly, determined by our sex or our gender.

                    • It’s only one of the reasons. Not the real reason. Perhaps private universities in America do that to uphold their image. I wouldn’t know about that, I’m Canadian.

                      I got into hard science due to my merit. I was definitely better than a lot of my fellow applicants since I had the opportunities and experiences several others did not have. I think I would be offended if someone undermined my effort and said that I wasn’t worthy of it because I am a woman, or that I was given that to meet certain numbers. To me, that definitely is active discrimination. Hey, if you didn’t get in, that’s your problem. Not mine.

                      Now how do I know there wasn’t any discrimination against sexes. Firstly, that was my university’s by-law. Secondly, I saw uneven proportions of male to female students in several programs and classes. The only program that was probably most egalitarian was chemistry and biology.

                    • “Grades are a poor indicator of intelligence.”

                      Really? Tell that to Harvard, Stanford, MIT, etc., and professional schools, like medical and law. The reason these institutions don’t just let in *anyone* who applies is because they know their programs are INTELLECTUALLY difficult.

                      Men and women are FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT. Intellect is just one of the ways we differ.

                      I’m not anti-anything. I’m just realist. I never said women weren’t capable of “anything intellectual” what I said is that men and women THINK DIFFERENTLY.

                      You must be very young and haven’t experienced much in life.

                    • I’m sorry but I don’t allow insults from commenters.

                      You obviously have issues.

                      Please don’t post here again.

                    • And no.. there is nothing of that sort “proven” by science..

                      There are papers published regarding this topic that say men and women do think differently but the participants are from the North American society. That’s really not a good indicator for world-wise generalizations. The sample size used is not only small but also localized. That’s a poor way to form statistics.

                      On the other hand there are other studies stating men and women are the same and that lifestyle is the key determinant for such results.

                      Evolutionary anthropologists often used evolutionary reasonings like sexual dimorphism, etc.. to make their point and psychologists and social anthropologists used society based circumstantial evidences to make their claim.

                      Since my experience taught me it really is a matter of our choices, I side with the latter. Hence, I do not really place much emphasis on evolutionary theories except in the cases of biological macroscopic and microscopic evolution.

                      The other weird study based on evolution by evolutionary anthropologists state that “men are more sexually driven than women” and that it is because “they need to spread their seed”. Social anthropologists refuted that statement by providing evidences of the contrary from modern-day societies across the globe.
                      Women are according to social anthropologists “taught to underplay their sexuality for cultural reasons”. Sex drive (like pain threshold) varies from person to person and there are several men with lower sex drives and likewise several women with high sex drives.

                      This was just one example. I can give you several other contradictory papers and studies in other fields like medical sciences, physical sciences, etc.. Hence, you should know that papers are not always the final word, they just reflect someone’s findings that they thought was important enough to publish. They may or may not be real facts. (Ex: Eistein published his paper on general theory of relativity back then. All this while it was pushed to the back burner and the scientific community only accepted it recently when they realized that GPS’s would not work without that. They finally found a tangible proof to deem that paper scientific, factual and Nobel Prize worthy. Only Einstein was around to be appreciated. He died with that looming uncertainty.)

                    • @ AngryDuck

                      It’s only one of the reasons. Not the real reason. Perhaps private universities in America do that to uphold their image. I wouldn’t know about that, I’m Canadian.

                      I got into hard science due to my merit. I was definitely better than a lot of my fellow applicants since I had the opportunities and experiences several others did not have. I think I would be offended if someone undermined my effort and said that I wasn’t worthy of it because I am a woman, or that I was given that to meet certain numbers. To me, that definitely is active discrimination. Hey, if you didn’t get in, that’s your problem. Not mine.

                      Now how do I know there wasn’t any discrimination against sexes. Firstly, that was my university’s by-law. Secondly, I saw uneven proportions of male to female students in several programs and classes. The only program that was probably most egalitarian was chemistry and biology.

                    • You should consider watching this talk by Prof. Daphna Joel (Phd. Psychology)

                      Real scientific analysis is hard to come across, especially with all the media propaganda. Hopefully this helps!

                      Good Luck.

                    • Here’s the problem with Daphna’s conclusion: reality doesn’t support it. The reason women become school teachers is because IT’S EASY to get an education degree. There are even special lower level math and physics classes just for education majors because they can’t master the basic intro level courses.

                      My father is a Math professor. He teaches advanced math, like Differential Equations. I’ve seen his student’s grades. With a couple RARE exceptions over the years, the men way out perform the women.

                      This isn’t because women are socialized to not be good at math—my generation was always assured we could “do anything” a man could—the reason is because women in general don’t have the aptitude for subjects like advanced math. Period.

                      The media isn’t what makes us think men and women’s brains are wired differently, men and women do.

                      It’s absurd to suggest that men and women are equally alike.

                    • Here’s the problem with your conclusions:
                      1. You’re generalization is very skewed. You’re right about courses for education degrees, they are simpler than the physics, chemistry or biology specialist streams. And that’s perfectly fine.
                      My high school had 2 math teachers, one with a basic Bachelor’s in Mathematics and a Teacher’s degree and the other with a Master’s in Mathematics. The latter may have more knowledge in abstract math but was almost entirely useless in teaching. No one followed his explanations, because he just couldn’t teach! What’s the point of all that knowledge if you can’t even do the job right?
                      So, condensed and simplified mathematics for school education stream is perfectly fine.
                      But, the flaw in your argument is that you are assuming all of the diluted mathematics courses are for women. They aren’t just for women; they are for educators. Men and women hoping to teach just need to follow the required course curriculum given by the institution.

                      2. If your father is a Math professor, you should also know by now that grades are a poor indicator of intelligence. Practice something everyday and it’s not that hard to get the grades. Besides, undergraduate mathematics isn’t exactly the “hard stuff”. Anyone can learn them. As a matter of fact; attending lectures to grasp differential equations isn’t even necessary. Graduate school mathematics is according to me, the “advanced mathematics”.
                      Nevertheless, I can give a few examples of people who did poorly in school.
                      A) Darwin. He himself has written, “I was considered by all my masters and my father, a very ordinary boy, rather below the common standard of intellect.”
                      B) Goddard, known for his research with liquid-fueled rockets. During his lifetime his ideas were often rejected and mocked at by his scientific peers who thought they were outrageous and impossible.
                      C) Robert Sternberg, a big name in psychology received a C in his first college introductory psychology class. His teacher apparently told him that, “there was already a famous Sternberg in psychology and it was obvious there would not be another.”
                      D) Edison’s teachers pretty much told him that he was “too stupid to learn anything.”
                      E) Benjamin Franklin, was not even a high school graduate.
                      F) Einstein, the greatest genius after Newton; failed his entrance exam to the prestigious Swiss Federal Institute of Technology.
                      So, what importance do grades hold? Richard Feynman once said; “True secret to genius is in creativity, not technical mechanics.”
                      Anyone can solve math problems, but to create solutions is ingenuity.

                      Aptitude is created. I wouldn’t have the aptitude to fix things if it weren’t for me doing that over the years. Einstein wouldn’t be interested in physics if it weren’t for the compass he received as a gift from his father. For Orville and Wilbur Wright, it was their bicycle shop!
                      The simple truth of nature is not that men and women are intellectually different, but that people are not born as geniuses, criminals or ordinary men; circumstances make them who they are.

                      2. The media dwells on false imaging and controversial news. Such things sell! Cultural stereotype is propagated through the media. If there is one thing Nazism taught me; it is that media is very effective is propagating false tales, rumors and most of all, brainwashing the general population into a certain mindset. People are nothing but pawns. Hence, media is what makes people think men and women are ‘wired’ differently. Sitcoms, movies, advertisements, etc. all are all overflowing with stereotypical images.
                      Ex: 1) Pink is ascribed to girls while blue is to boys. 2) Men wearing is skirt is deemed abnormal but women wearing pants are not. 3) Being “emotional” is a “feminine” quality. Men are basically pictured to be “emotionless” robots.

                      3. I don’t know what group of peers you associate with. But if you really think women are basically incapable of anything intellectual, I’d just call that you’re ignorance.
                      Logically, it makes no sense that if women are incapable of learning. If so, why we would see such an incline in the number of women awarded medical, engineering and science degrees. If you don’t believe me, maybe statistics may help.
                      If women are incapable of advanced learning, here’s another report. http://www.nacwaa.org/newsroom/Articles%20of%20Interest/353

                      Well, you are entitled to your own opinions. To me, I could care less about what you believe in. I gave you links and examples assuming that you perhaps only saw one side of the story.

                      I can only tell you this: It is absurd that you, despite all of the examples stated; still believe that men and women are fundamentally different in intellectual abilities. But, if you still rigidly believe in what you previously believed in, then it’s not my place to say anything more.

                      However, I’d like to end with one realization that I’ve come across after conversing with several anti-feminists like you. It’s that; men aren’t the misogynists. Women are.
                      Men aren’t the ones defining social systems and standards. Women are.
                      Men aren’t the ones making women fit into stereotypical norms of the society. Women are.
                      And, men are almost never the limitations for women in modern day American societies. Women are!
                      We basically pull each other down.

                    • So given your conclusion that men and women’s brains are wired differently, you should accept the next logical step, that men and women should be doing different type of work.

                      Would you like to give examples as to what type of work you, as a woman, are able to do, given the wiring of your female brain? The question might sound really wrong and offensive, but given your conclusion, I think it’s a perfectly legitimate question to ask.

                    • What types of work do women mostly do now? Teaching, nursing, secretarial, medicine, fashion, hair styling, blogging, writing, interior decorating, etc.

                      Of course, this is a generalization. There will always be exceptions. There will always be a handful of women who can do jobs or professions traditionally dominated by men.

                      But, let’s be honest. For the most part, women aren’t engineering bridges, designing space stations and nuclear reactors. They aren’t designing, building and maintaining our infrastructure.

                    • Okay, so you just listed jobs that women typically flock to. Prior to this you were mentioning that the reason for this is because women and men’s brains were wired differently. So your argument sounds like that because of the wiring of women’s brains, that these are the only jobs they can do?

                      You mention the notion of variation. Is there something in these people’s brains that account for these variations (i.e. different brain structure leading someone to become a, say, engineer)?

                    • Why do you think women flock to those jobs?

                      Most women are not good, and/or not interested in jobs that require math, abstract or spatial thinking skills.

                      We have had diverse cultures throughout the ages where sometimes women did have equal footing with men. If women were intellectual equals to men in mathematics, science, etc., they would have accomplished things that involved those skills. But we’ll note they didn’t.

                      There would have been a female Einstein, Newton, Copernicus, Galileo, Archimedes, Pythgoras, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, or Steve Wozniak. I could go on for pages listing all the men of science. The women of science? Hmmm…. there’s Marie Curie, but she worked with her dad.

                      It isn’t because women have been “socialized” to not like engineering or math. It’s that women, frankly, aren’t very good at those subjects. (I’ve known a couple of women who were very good at such subjects, but only a couple.)

                      Of course male and female brains are structurally different. This isn’t news. There have been many studies done that have shown male and females have differences in their brains. Harvard did one in 2001. Men have 6.5 times more gray matter than women. Women 10 times more white matter. Obviously, this influences how we think.

                    • JJ said:
                      “Nothing is wired differently.. people think differently, that’s all.”

                      Male and female brains wired differently, scans reveal

                      I know this is very late after the party but as Chateau Heartiste would say:
                      “I FUCKING <3 SCIENCE"

                      Science once again kills Feminist boilerpoint dead in it's tracks.

                    • I am amazed at your attitudes. When someone says something you don’t like, you tell them they are rude and they shouldn’t post again. However, you are free to tell people they haven’t had enough life experience or they would agree with you.

                      I will agree that male and female brains are not the same. I will agree that there are many women who can not do higher math and have crappy spatial perception. I also know that the same can be said of many men. There are lots of stupid people in the world. If you cannot compete with men, that is okay, but many women can. Leave us to do our business without trying to drag us down.

                      Toys? I wished desperately, as a child, for a dump truck. I only got one and a boy at my party broke it. I bought one for my daughter, and she had no interest. She also took crappy care of her dolls, but her male cousin took tender care of his. Why do you want to label people? Can’t you just be yourself and let other people be themselves?

                  • It’s really funny how this JJ girl supports her arguments in sociological views( mainly based in her PERSONAL life LOL) but ignores the biological and empirical proofs of science. JJ ,women don’t apply for these jobs only because we tell girls and boys how to act due to their genders. Here goes a documentary with powerful arguments that gender roles aren’t only based on sociological beliefs, but are mainly driven from biology:

                    • Ferrer- why do you call JJ a “girl”? Would you like it if the other posters called you a “boy”? Don’t actually know which sex or gender you are, so what if we just call you, “youngster”? Would that seem respectful enough?

                  • “Do Any Women Work at the Dirty, Difficult and Dangerous Jobs that Men Do? Any Women At All?” Anybody who posts an example of a woman doing this sort of job, is told it isn’t enough. You people don’t want to hear about any women who do these jobs. It won’t be enough no matter how high the numbers go. Why not title this article correctly, like this- “We don’t really appreciate women, but would like to bolster mens’ egos by making them feel sooo special.”

                    Science has proven that men and women’s physical brains are different. However, that does not prove that men are any better than women at thinking. Further, it proves generalizations about the two sexes, but can’t predict individuals’ abilities. I generally score a percentile somewhere in the high 90s, arts or sciences.So, if test scores mean anything, I can compete academically with most of the population, and that includes men. I am not “rare”. There are lots of smart women out there, and they don’t need you to validate their abilities to possess them.

        • Thank you, David.

      • http://www.rense.com/general19/zero.htm

        Lt. Brenda Berkman was working during the 9/11 crisis. I don’t know if she went inside, but she said this, “Women were trapped in the rubble. Three women rescue workers were killed that day”. These were the ones she named- Port Authority Capt. Kathy Mazza, police officer Moira Smith and paramedic Yamel Merino. I understand that you won’t know everything, but all I did was google, “women rescue workers towers 9/11”. You seem obstinate about accepting any information that doesn’t agree with your hypothesis, which is unscientific. Perhaps it is true that your brain isn’t manly enough to be objective.

    • I think the underlying issue is simply that feminists seem to think that women and men are interchangeable, that a woman can do anything a man can and if the numbers aren’t perfectly even, it’s because of discrimination. These listed vocations that overwhelmingly kill men are filled with men, though, because women either can’t or won’t do the work, and therefore, the feminist narrative that any woman can do the work of any man is flawed. It is also ignored, since feminists focus on jobs like CEOs and politicians for their activism, but ignore all the dangerous jobs as listed above. When was the last time you saw a feminist demand women only short lists for logging companies?

      A darker side to the feminist perspective in this area is, of course, that men are expendable, and deficient, and we are only good for dying doing dangerous manual labour.

        • Carolina Courtland- Marie Curie worked with her husband (not her father), because he saw what she was doing and wanted in on it. So no, she was not just some scientist’s lacky. But I suppose we can discount him because he was only working with his wife. And I think you should do the research and discount any man who worked with his dad, if that is your criteria for judging women. Marie Curie went to more effort than the average guy to get her education. She had to find a University that would educate a woman.

        • Carolina Courtland- As I said elsewhere, your female Einstein was actually Mileva Einstein, who was a Serbian physicist, but she didn’t contribute much to the academic world after her marriage. Perhaps she was too busy taking care of the kids, unlike her husband. The fact that one of them was schizophrenic probably added to the work. Here is a list of other female scientists for you to ignore.

          Rosalind Franklin
          Lise Meitner
          Chien-Shiung Wu
          Barbara McClintock
          Jocelyn Ball Burnell
          Gertrude B. Elion
          Rita Levi-Monalcini
          Ada Lovelace
          Rachel Carson
          Dorothy Hodgkin
          Mary Anning
          Irene Joliot-Curie
          Grace Hopper
          Hertha Marks Ayrton
          Gerty Cori
          Dian Fossey
          Emilie du Chatelet
          Ellen Swallow Richards
          Sophie Germain

      • I think it is fair to say that you know jack shit about feminism and feminists. How would you get a women only short list for logging companies? When was the last time you saw a feminist demand women only short lists for any industry?

        Instead of trying to figure out what feminists, or any women, think, trying dealing with what is put forward. I agree that some feminists might say that any woman can do any man’s job, I say that that is silly and irrelevant. Does it matter if a male co-worker can lift 200lbs? Maybe I can only lift 50, and maybe other male co-workers can only lift 100lbs. If the job only requires me to lift 45lbs or if it is standard practice to get 2 people to lift the large boxes that weigh over 50 lbs, or use a mechanical lift, who cares about that one buff co-worker?

        You are also seriously confused about the value placed on men by feminists. Feminism seeks equal rights, so theoretically, feminists must want good rights for men. The women who want to use men as expendable tools, are traditionally conservative princesses.

  44. I might have a death wish, I’ve worked in 5 of those industries before, worked on a fishing boat for a week because I wanted seafood for an upcoming party, and have worked in mining for 5 years…

  45. I remember when a march happened for jobs forf women in a coal mine… the mine offered all marchers a job… out of 200 unemployed women, 2 took the job…

    Years later the coal mine I work in has 1/3 of women in the workforce… Though women are bred tough down here…

    • You mean this mine that’s in Australia? Do 1/3 of these women work at the coal face itself or in support positions?

      • Depends on the night/day but 1/3 in each section, yes at the wall face.

        Women are treated like any other in the workforce really. “One of the guys” most would say. We’ve got women from receptionists, pharmacists, hairdressers, road train drivers, farmers, tradespeople and more. Quite a few were miners all their lives (the older ones), while the younger ones are earning caash to set themselves up before having a family…

        There is actually a law in Australian Coal Mines where a percentage must be women, or actively trying to seek women before hiring men in that percentage range (so if one applied with no experience, she would get it over the bloke with 40 years experience – not that it’s a bad thing, it’s the law)

    • That is funny! But consider that perhaps the 198 did not want jobs with the mine, but were practicing solidarity with the 2 who did. A march with 2 people would be even funnier.

  46. Looks like i’ll have to update my stats! Garbage collectors (female) fell from 3% to 1%.. ohhh noes. Somebody call those feminists to start up a march or something.. call it the Walk to Take Back the Trash.. or somthing..

    I thought they wouldn’t stop till they held 50% of all the jobs equally?

    • “Walk to Take Back the Trash” LMAO!!

      I don’t think women are even 1% because they aren’t collecting trash, they are truck driving. So it’s really 0%, but I gave them a break.

      Yeah, right, like women are ever going to work at the sucky jobs. Please. Those are for men.

      • You know, at one point, I was trying to be a garbage collector, because I wanted union wages to support my family. As it turned out, the first available job was in housekeeping. Now the garbage collectors in my city are driving automated trucks, so they don`t actually pick up garbage with their big, manly muscles, they are just driving trucks. Lots of women work at the sucky jobs. If you have no respect for women, at least be honest and say you have no respect for yourself and the women you know, because you don`t know ME.

    • You would think, but they don’t even stop at that. Now that 65% of American University graduates are women, it means that we’re on the right track. Now we need to start phasing men out of the hard sciences too. GO TITLE IX!

  47. Feminists heads would explode if they were ever taken to task on the wage gap and other topics covered in books like “Why Men Earn More.”

    I remember getting pissed off at women who would get away with murder in school playing the emotional/victim card with their teachers (even with the female teachers), and then recognizing it later in the work force. Now I just know it to be reality and try to avoid letting it bother me. I enjoy the benefits of being a man where I can and let the rest roll off my back, because men can only hold up so much before they’re crushed (and then tossed like a piece of garbage).

  48. I think the other side of the coin here, or at the very least, a closely related issue, is the whole “wage gap myth”. Even if there were women in these jobs, as there (very) occasionally are, they’re struggling to be as productive as the men with whom they work, and yet, they get paid the same.

    Equal pay, sure, but never for equal work. Like Angry Harry says, if I can carry two bricks to your every one brick, doesn’t that mean I should get paid twice as much as you?*

    *”I” and “you” are used here rhetorically, this is by no means an attempt to personalise the remark.

    • That’s a good point. Do these women do equal work, or are their male co-workers picking up the slack? The female firefighters could only be hired after the standards were lowered for them. They couldn’t qualify using the men’s standards for hiring.

      • And now, the question we have to ask is, how much quality are we willing to sacrifice for the sake of inclusiveness? Where does the line between “bare minimum” and “incompetent” lie? Should we be willing to compromise on standards at all so that women can qualify, or should we simply say “These are the standards, anyone who can meet them is hired, male or female.” Seems to me, if feminists were truly interested in equality, they would be advocating for stronger women, not weaker standards.

    • Angry Duck- I understand that your brick remark is borrowed, and metaphorical, but I have always just loaded the bricks into the wheelbarrow, and when it is full, I move it. I am going to take a chance and assume that you have never worked in a male -dominated field. I have and I assure you, that most of the crap men talk about is made up. What kind of asshole moves 2 bricks at a time?

  49. I know I say this on the regular, but I mean it: You’re awesome. I like the way you approach these subjects and back it up. Muah!

    • I had to back it up or some feminist would comment that she saw a photo of female coal miner once, so what I was saying was bullshit.

      And thanks, you’re an awesome chick, too.

      • Your stats may be true, but I think a lot of what you are saying is ridiculous. I’ve known women who were great in mathematics, for example, and many men who hated it. I don’t think it is fair to say, hey, this gender is for this, and this gender is for that (intellectually), because 1, it’s not true, and 2, it’s just bleak putting everyone into boxes by gender. Seriously, I have to question the intellect of someone who does that. Such as, why you questioned why there was no female Einstein, etc. You’re failing to take into account the social restrictions that were put on women back in those days. I think now we are beginning to see that more women are going into the hard sciences, and possibly more female engineers may come in the future.
        Furthermore, I am no Feminist (disclaimer), but I would simply say that women do not go into the above work simply because they do not want to. I think we are more than capable of getting down and dirty like that, as we don’t even need to be the same physicality as men, just tough-minded and strong. I don’t understand why any woman would want her own gender to look weak and privileged, because plenty of us are not like that. Perhaps we have higher aspirations than working in a coal mine? I would argue that plenty of these men only take these jobs because it is all they really had.
        Plus, my mother is a nurse, and I would consider what she does as dangerous. She risks getting the blood of those infected with HIV on her, as well as those with TB or other communicable, vicious diseases. She sees people at their worst, she is there for families of the dead and dying, and she cheers those up who are recovering. And yes, she may not have run into a burning building, but she gets those who come in stabilized, keeps them alive if she feels them slipping with defibrillator, etc. Don’t ever tell me that nurses are not heroes, because I know from actual *experience* that they are.

        • I agree that working as a nurse is dangerous, not like working in a coal mine though. And men work in coal mines because that may be all they can do but more importantly, someone has to do it—and women sure don’t.

          Doing mathematics is not dangerous or deadly so that example fails.

          I’m sorry if you can’t accept reality. Women simply do not work at the dangerous, deadly and unpleasant jobs. The facts show that. Women aren’t loggers, high voltage workers, cell phone tower workers, coal miners, deep sea fisherman, steel workers, roofers. etc. I could go on….

          • Yes, even like working in a coal mine. Risking being infected with a deadly disease from a patient is as dangerous as breathing in dust from a coal mine. Both are jobs it takes a brave person to do.
            Where did I say that math is an example of a “dangerous” or “deadly” job? You’re reading ability fails.
            I said at the very beginning of my statement that the stats may be correct. However, I do not believe that this is because women *cannot* do them. I suggest that it is because we aim higher? The jobs that pay high and are more respectable (socially, I mean), such as CEOs. Nothing wrong with aiming high, plus I have seen female construction workers laughing and joking with her male co-workers, which, though it is just *one* woman, yes, I admit just one, I thought was great.

            • Women don’t work at the dangerous, deadly jobs because they *cannot* do them. They don’t work at them ’cause they don’t want to and don’t have to. Men do it for them.

              Women aim higher? Yeah, they can have that luxury because, once again, men are doing the dirty work that keeps us all living comfortably. Women work at the cushy indoor jobs while men work in the roasting heat and freezing cold so women can keep their cushy indoor jobs.

              Yeah, you saw ONE female construction worker.

              • Perhaps you could entertain the idea that your way of thinking is not shared by every woman out there. I have had crappy, dangerous, deadly and dirty jobs. Why? Because they tend to be well paid, union jobs. Because they tend to be challenging and fun. Because I am strong with a lot of energy, so I find sitting on my ass boring. Because if you get lucky and aren’t working with a bunch of stupid chauvinists, you can have work buddies that are seriously fun to work with, instead of trying to make conversation with princesses who want to talk about their manicures and their dirty husbands who keep trying to do rude things to them.

              • If men want to “aim higher”, there is nothing to stop them.

          • Women also don’t do military combat or at least are not required to do military combat.

            Women are not forced to register with Selective Service.

            • Rodger, women are not required to be soldiers, and neither should men be. Instead of trying to stop women from having the rights that they have, men should demand those same rights. Imagine the war that no soldier showed up for. Hallelujah! do you think women like to see men die?

              • I don’t think women like to see men die, but our government leaders sure don’t mind it. Males soldiers, which is what gender soldiers usually are, have historically been viewed as cannon fodder. Who cares if they die in some godforsaken hell hole over some stupid ideology. The number of young men who have been sent to their deaths over some ridiculous bullshit is appalling.

                If women were forced to serve in the military maybe we would get involved in fewer wars.

                • Feminism is a movement for equality. If we all agreed that women were equal, I guess we would have to agree men are equal! My son is told it is alright to cry, share his feelings….yada, yada. There is no way he will grow up thinking other people get to tell him how to live his life. Even me. There are rules in my house, but they don’t cover personal decisions like how he dresses or does his hair. He has long hair, but also felt comfortable refusing to wear a pink shirt, (which is an anti-bullying event we have annually on Pink Shirt Day.) My point is that we shouldn’t refuse equality to women because men don’t have equality. Everybody should get it.

                  • I don’t know what this article has to do with male and female equality. The article is about women not choosing to do the dangerous jobs. Period.

                    Of course men and women should be treated equally when it comes to pay and getting jobs they ARE QUALIFIED TO DO. It isn’t equality though, when a woman is hired to do a job but really doesn’t qualify because she can’t do it physically, like firefighter, etc.

                    • I brought up equality of men and women, because YOU posted this, “If women were forced to serve in the military maybe we would get involved in fewer wars. ” So I was pointing out that the same evil movement that insists on equal pay, Affirmative Action, etc. is the same movement that should support men being treated equally with women- ie. they should not be forced to enlist either. Any feminist who is honest will have to agree that men deserve equal rights with women. But the strange thing, is that even when I agree with you, you want to give me a lecture. Like a red herring to distract from all the posts where I disagreed, and especially provided proof that you are incorrect. This article has nothing to do with male and female equality…Period. Okay, so why do you go off topic with men? Why do you want to talk about muscular bare chests? It seems to me like you are massively desperate for male attention and are using the age old stratagem of catering to their egos. Sadly, it works with most people, but some of us value reason and truth too much for that.

          • Wow!! You must do shitloads of research! All those industries that you have taken the time to assure yourself that all the workers are male. It is amazing. Did you read the article about coalmining women that I posted a link to somewhere in this thread? Did you consider that women risk their lives giving birth? Did you know that nurses are often attacked by sick and crazy people? Ever think about how women are abused by their spouses, so that even being a homemaker can be dangerous?

          • Carolina Courtland- It seems to me that you are saying that there are men out there who could have some cushy, high paying job, but they say to themselves, “Ah, but who will mine the coal? There is nothing for it- I’ll have to be a coal miner.” Reminds me of Beyond the Fringe. And don’t blame me for the men who are mocking the stupid miner. Peter Cook was definitely a man. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Grg5tULy0tY

        • Why are you NOT a feminist? You don’t think women have equal value? Or you just don’t think they should have equal rights? What is this crap about a female Einstein? Albert’s first wife was Mileva, a Serbian physicist, who, as the story goes, left him because she was bored being a housewife and being left out of all the interesting conversations. Maybe the poster who suggested we HAVE to produce a female Einstein had never heard of Marie Curie.

          As for nurses, I have worked with enough of them (male and female). Dealing with difficult, sometimes violent patients. Working back to back, 12 hour shifts. Dealing with shit, literally. Do you all know what a nurse has to do if someone hasn’t taken a crap for 4 days? This is a genuine job that fits into the dirty and dangerous description.

          I feel sorry for some women. There is a certain type of woman who does not want to make an effort. She is afraid that her own intellect or physical abilities are not enough, or perhaps she is simply lazy. She would like to convince men that they need to take care of her while she microwaves their dinner and swiffers their floors. Maybe these women feel insecure, but they want to brand all women with their labels and stop the rest of us from doing more.

      • I have to confess that I have not read this thread for awhile, and I am reading from the bottom up. I also better confess to being a feminist. I am afraid my ego is a little large, what with being smarter than most men and able to keep up with many of them in physical arenas, as well. I don`t have a photo of a female coal miner, but here is a link to a book about female coal miners and perhaps IT has a photo. http://www.psupress.org/books/titles/0-271-02903-X.html

  50. Question. When you see these pics of men doing what women cant (or wont), do you get turned on?

    • These pics have to be sexier than pics of nerds in an office.

    • No.

      But, men who work at these types of jobs tend to be masculine and in really good shape so when they take off their shirts it’s like it’s….oh, yeah. I think most women would agree that firefighters are hot, for instance.

      • I wonder if the status plays a role there. The coal miners are low status – more like slaves… but not the kind that brings you fruit whit a naked torso while you’re in bed. I’ve seen girls turned on by male uniforms… mechanics, police men, firefighters… It’s funny how men are attracted to the body while women are attracted to the role. And how much feminism keeps messing this up.

        • And yet, if a man admits to choosing women based on his sexual preferences, he’s accused of “sexually objectifying women”. Yet when women objectify men as simply the roles they play, very few people seem to bat an eye.

          I think we need to be willing to admit that objectification isn’t always a bad thing. But if we’re going to keep treating objectification as unfavourable, then we need to treat ALL objectification as unfavourable, not just that which objectifies women.

          • I don’t know what people you run with, but I have never heard a man accused of sexually objectifying women when he chooses a date based on his sexual preferences. More like when that is the ONLY thing he notices about his dates. How about guys who are sexually obsessed with women in an inappropriate situation like the doctor’s office or a classroom setting. There is a big difference between dating a woman because you like redheads with big breasts, and asking a pretty lady why she isn’t married when she is trying to do your taxes for you.

            And for all those people who missed the last many, many decades- feminism has encouraged men to be thought of and treated as individuals, not objectified. So maybe the assholes objectifying men are the same assholes pissing feminists off.

        • I am not a slave… and I be damned to see any firemen, police be underground for more than a few hours…

        • Ha, ha! You think you know what women are attracted to, but studies show that men are hopelessly confused about womens’ sexuality. I remember well how the institution I worked at was frozen by a false fire bell and how we had to stand around waiting for the alarm to be turned off. There was a couple of firemen making repeated trips to our wing and, I assure you, we were only looking at the hot one with the awesome body. If you are concerned about womens’ libidos, don’t rule out the feminists, as it lowers your chances.

          • The only physically attractive women I’ve met personally who called themselves feminists were either not American (and strongly did not consider themselves in the same group as the most vocal and belligerant branch of current American feminism) or they were older than my mother.

            • Well, I’m not American, so I don’t know much about your country’s feminists. Nor your taste in women. Rest assured though, that just about every person is someone else’s cup of tea.

  51. Did I mention you’re my kind of girl?


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  6. Propaganda Level: Goebbels | observinglibertarian
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  8. Interlude: Dangerous Ghosts – The Dangerous Child
  9. 13 Reasons Why I’m Grateful for Strong Men | Ladies Again
  10. Infographic Debunks "Male Privilege" | The Federalist Papers
  11. Do Men Have a Right To Be Angry With Women? – Staked in the Heart

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